Plot Holes

#291lamerhaterPosted 2/10/2013 10:29:57 AM
theofficefan99 posted...
lamerhater posted...
0 AF is just the year it happened.


That doesn't make sense. You don't start something before it happens. AF stands for After Fall , meaning that it doesn't start before the fall. That would make no sense. And, as you know, when you're born, you don't start out at Age 1, you start out at Age 0. 0 AF begins after Cocoon falls and is crystallized, and chaos is unleashed after Lightning and co. are decrystallized.


Dude. BC and AC work the same way.
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#292theofficefan99Posted 2/10/2013 10:57:42 AM(edited)
lamerhater posted...
theofficefan99 posted...
lamerhater posted...
0 AF is just the year it happened.


That doesn't make sense. You don't start something before it happens. AF stands for After Fall , meaning that it doesn't start before the fall. That would make no sense. And, as you know, when you're born, you don't start out at Age 1, you start out at Age 0. 0 AF begins after Cocoon falls and is crystallized, and chaos is unleashed after Lightning and co. are decrystallized.


Dude. BC and AC work the same way.


You mean BC and AD?

And I know, but that doesn't matter at all. Especially since BC and AD were not conceived until hundreds of years after AD supposedly began...

It doesn't make sense that 0 AF starts before the fall when AF stands for After Fall. Just use logic. Please.

And that's not the point, anyways. It really doesn't matter when 0 AF began. What really matters is when chaos was unleashed, and that was after Lightning and co. decrystallized.
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#293roxas9001(Topic Creator)Posted 2/10/2013 11:07:30 AM
It really doesn't matter when 0 AF began. What really matters is when chaos was unleashed, and that was after Lightning and co. decrystallized.

Etro's Gate was open pretty all last chapter and she intervened and helped the party by mixing her power with theirs and that's why they returned from Cie'th Mode.
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#294theofficefan99Posted 2/10/2013 11:11:07 AM
roxas9001 posted...
It really doesn't matter when 0 AF began. What really matters is when chaos was unleashed, and that was after Lightning and co. decrystallized.

Etro's Gate was open pretty all last chapter and she intervened and helped the party by mixing her power with theirs and that's why they returned from Cie'th Mode.


That is completely irrelevant. Chaos was unleashed after Etro released Lightning and co. from their crystallized form, and that's it. It doesn't matter what she did before, the only thing that matters is when chaos was unleashed due to her losing power, and that was after she decrystallizes the party and removes their brands.
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#295Elice_CarolPosted 2/10/2013 11:23:18 AM
Sorry, what's the plot hole we're discussing, and what sides are being taken? I'm bloody amazing when it comes to this stuff, yanno.
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#296theofficefan99Posted 2/10/2013 11:34:32 AM(edited)
Elice_Carol posted...
Sorry, what's the plot hole we're discussing, and what sides are being taken? I'm bloody amazing when it comes to this stuff, yanno.


While I do realize it's a bit of a stretch, since the game doesn't provide sufficient information in order to completely prove it, but the fact that Alyssa is in the game at all is a problem for me. She dies before chaos is unleashed, and this means that she is part of the true timeline, and it's a problem that she is affected by chaos at all, since this means that chaos can tamper with the true timeline, and this means that there are bound to be other paradoxes that chaos created pre-0 AF that citizens will notice, such as missing items/people, misplaced monsters, physical distortions, etc. etc., just like how it is in XIII-2, and this is a problem because this would be tampering with the true timeline, and people would notice that there are weird things going on, and things would be different, pretty much destroying any semblance of a "true timeline" and this would also potentially mean a change of events from XIII.

There are people arguing with me saying that it isn't a problem at all.That's about the jist of it. There were pages of arguments as to when 0 AF exactly started, but it just hit me that when 0 AF started is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand.
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"Dyin' is easy. It's the livin' that's hard..." Grim Reaper, Maximo vs. The Army of Zin
#297lamerhaterPosted 2/10/2013 11:38:20 AM(edited)
theofficefan99 posted...
While I do realize it's a bit of a stretch, since the game doesn't provide sufficient information in order to completely prove it, but the fact that Alyssa is in the game at all is a problem for me. She dies before chaos is unleashed, and this means that she is part of the true timeline, and it's a problem that she is affected at all, since this means that chaos can tamper with the true timeline, and this means that there are bound to be other paradoxes that chaos created pre-0 AF that citizens will notice, such as missing items/people, misplaced monsters, physical distortions, etc. etc., just like how it is in XIII-2, and this is a problem because this would be tampering with the true timeline, and people would notice that there are weird things going on, and things would be different, pretty much destroying any semblance of a "true timeline" and this would also potentially mean a change of events from XIII.

There are people arguing with me saying that it isn't a problem at all. That's about the jist of it.


It's pretty much the whole "Etro intervening to decrystalize Lightning and party is what let the chaos out in the first place" issue.

If you change the future, you change the past and all that hubbub.

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Also my apologies for using AC instead of AD, political correctness is a thing here.

But, it's moreover that they gauge by year rather than specific day. It's just easier that way y'know? If the Fall happened on May 21st, the days before May 21st would still be considered AF because it happened in the same year? That's just how chronology works...

But you're still right, the chaos was released AFTER everybody was decrystalized.
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#298theofficefan99Posted 2/10/2013 11:42:43 AM
lamerhater posted...
theofficefan99 posted...
While I do realize it's a bit of a stretch, since the game doesn't provide sufficient information in order to completely prove it, but the fact that Alyssa is in the game at all is a problem for me. She dies before chaos is unleashed, and this means that she is part of the true timeline, and it's a problem that she is affected at all, since this means that chaos can tamper with the true timeline, and this means that there are bound to be other paradoxes that chaos created pre-0 AF that citizens will notice, such as missing items/people, misplaced monsters, physical distortions, etc. etc., just like how it is in XIII-2, and this is a problem because this would be tampering with the true timeline, and people would notice that there are weird things going on, and things would be different, pretty much destroying any semblance of a "true timeline" and this would also potentially mean a change of events from XIII.

There are people arguing with me saying that it isn't a problem at all. That's about the jist of it.


It's pretty much the whole "Etro intervening to decrystalize Lightning and party is what let the chaos out in the first place" issue.

If you change the future, you change the past and all that hubbub.

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Also my apologies for using AC instead of AD, political correctness is a thing here.

But, it's moreover that they gauge by year rather than specific day. It's just easier that way y'know? If the Fall happened on May 21st, the days before May 21st would still be considered AF because it happened in the same year? That's just how chronology works...

But you're still right, the chaos was released AFTER everybody was decrystalized.


I suppose, but yeah, I just realized after pages of arguments that when 0 AF began is completely irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is when chaos was released, and that's after the party decrystallizes and has their brands removed.
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"Dyin' is easy. It's the livin' that's hard..." Grim Reaper, Maximo vs. The Army of Zin
#299ayalorenPosted 2/10/2013 11:49:11 AM(edited)
The timeline was warped right after the final battle, though. That's when Lightning was erased, so the entire fall of Cocoon was warped as well.

Edit: The real and only important plot hole is how Yeul can show up in New Bodhum 3 AF and then showing up 10 AF, still looking the same age.
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#300theofficefan99Posted 2/10/2013 11:50:22 AM
ayaloren posted...
The timeline was warped right after the final battle, though. That's when Lightning was erased, so the entire fall of Cocoon was warped as well.


It was warped after Lightning and co. decrystallized.

The thing is, the paradoxes didn't make her crystallized along with Fang and Vanille. It "wrote her out of history," and made the party believe that she is crystallized along with Fang and Vanille, when she is really in Valhalla, now serving Etro. It's only speculation from the characters that she died/was crystallized. There is no way chaos actually went back in time before 0 AF and caused Lightning to be one of the three people to become Ragnarok and crystallize the falling Cocoon.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120318031232/finalfantasy/images/f/f5/Crystallized_Coccon_at_night.png

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/archive/9/94/20100320202007!Final_Fantasy_XIII_Logo.jpg

As you can see here, the crystallized Cocoon in XIII-2 is exactly the same as the one in XIII's logo/ending before any of this paradox business happens, so Lightning didn't actually get crystallized along with Fang and Vanille.

For the paradoxes to actually affect history pre-fall, Lightning actually had to have been dead/crystallized along with Vanille and Fang pre-fall. That didn't happen. She was whisked away and taken to Valhalla. All the game states is that she was erased and people came to the conclusion that she's up there with Vanille and Fang, or dead, and Etro did this so that no one would know that Lightning is in Valhalla, I suppose.
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"Dyin' is easy. It's the livin' that's hard..." Grim Reaper, Maximo vs. The Army of Zin