Plot Holes

#91justdontaskPosted 2/5/2013 10:40:27 AM
theofficefan99 posted...
justdontask posted...
kupo1705 posted...
justdontask posted...
the only plot holes came in during 13-2.... 13-1 stood on its own perfectly, with every question being answered in another cutscene, or the same cutscene the question was raised...


You mean everything was answered in the datalog.


no, i mean in other cutscenes... i never went to the datalog once and i could follow the story quite easily without thinking "wait, this doesnt make sense"... gimme some examples, and i can tell you if you make a good point or not... or which cutscene explained it...


There is no way of knowing what the hell happened during the ending and that Pulse branded the party without referring to the Ultimania.


what do you mean no way of knowing what happened? the party's crystal stasis just didnt last hundreds of years like Fang's and Vanille's, and it was supposed to be a happy ending, which it was for everybody but Hope... the "legends" that were mentioned time and time again said that crystal stasis is eternal life, and that the crystalized person will one day reawaken... it made sense... when 13-2 came in and said it was Etro that woke em up, thats when the plot hole came in...
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#92theofficefan99Posted 2/5/2013 11:01:51 AM
It's not grasping at straws at all. Let's use logic: if things happened pre-fall and people were affected by it, the past would be affected as much as the present and future. Saying "ohhhh pre-fall isn't affected as much because blah blah" is grasping at straws. If the past was affected as much as the present and future, things would be different. Physical distortions would appear just like how it is in XIII-2 during XIII's timeline and before, meaning that we'd be able to know about paradoxes during XIII, because chaos, according to you, affected the timeline post-fall and pre-fall, but to save face, chaos *apparently* affects things more the further you go down in the timeline...

When a paradox occurs in XIII-2, 9 times out of 10, there is a physical distortion. If Alyssa is one of the possibly millions of people affected by the paradoxes pre-fall, why the hell are there no physical distortions during XIII's time and before it?

Chaos affects the past and future AFTER 0 AF. It is supposed to affect things after 0 AF. Otherwise, if it was affected pre-fall,too, paradoxes would have been discovered a long time ago and things would be different. This is logic. Common sense,

That is just you grasping at straws and you have zero proof of that. You are just saving face. If it did not actually reach back into the past itself, then Alyssa SHOULD NOT have been affected. She died BEFORE 0 AF. I proved this in the other topic. Chaos only affects things AFTER 0 AF, otherwise paradoxes would have been noticed and prevalent in XIII's time as well and that'd be a retcon/massive plot hole.

No. Go read the topic. Alyssa died during the Purge, which is before 0 AF, which means that she should not be involved in XIII-2 at all. Plot hole. Period.
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#93drsw36Posted 2/5/2013 11:30:11 AM
theofficefan99 posted...
It's not grasping at straws at all. Let's use logic: if things happened pre-fall and people were affected by it, the past would be affected as much as the present and future. Saying "ohhhh pre-fall isn't affected as much because blah blah" is grasping at straws. If the past was affected as much as the present and future, things would be different. Physical distortions would appear just like how it is in XIII-2 during XIII's timeline and before, meaning that we'd be able to know about paradoxes during XIII, because chaos, according to you, affected the timeline post-fall and pre-fall, but to save face, chaos *apparently* affects things more the further you go down in the timeline...

When a paradox occurs in XIII-2, 9 times out of 10, there is a physical distortion. If Alyssa is one of the possibly millions of people affected by the paradoxes pre-fall, why the hell are there no physical distortions during XIII's time and before it?

Chaos affects the past and future AFTER 0 AF. It is supposed to affect things after 0 AF. Otherwise, if it was affected pre-fall,too, paradoxes would have been discovered a long time ago and things would be different. This is logic. Common sense,

That is just you grasping at straws and you have zero proof of that. You are just saving face. If it did not actually reach back into the past itself, then Alyssa SHOULD NOT have been affected. She died BEFORE 0 AF. I proved this in the other topic. Chaos only affects things AFTER 0 AF, otherwise paradoxes would have been noticed and prevalent in XIII's time as well and that'd be a retcon/massive plot hole.

No. Go read the topic. Alyssa died during the Purge, which is before 0 AF, which means that she should not be involved in XIII-2 at all. Plot hole. Period.


Alyssa became involved in the Purge when she visited her friend, Nena Stein, in Bodhum. She escaped and hid from the army with other Purgees, but they got buried under a pile of rubble in a cave-in. We don't know exactly when she died, she could have died after 0AF.

Another theory is that her friend survived and Alyssa died. Her friend made a grave for Alyssa in the Bresha ruins then the distortion in the timeline that Etro created must have made Alyssa switch place with her friend since her friend's name was in the grave instead.

Since Serah & Noel fixed the timeline Alyssa is no more and her friend is probably back.
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#94TheGreatPotatoPosted 2/5/2013 11:35:52 AM
theofficefan99 posted...
It's not grasping at straws at all. Let's use logic: if things happened pre-fall and people were affected by it, the past would be affected as much as the present and future. Saying "ohhhh pre-fall isn't affected as much because blah blah" is grasping at straws. If the past was affected as much as the present and future, things would be different. Physical distortions would appear just like how it is in XIII-2 during XIII's timeline and before, meaning that we'd be able to know about paradoxes during XIII, because chaos, according to you, affected the timeline post-fall and pre-fall, but to save face, chaos *apparently* affects things more the further you go down in the timeline...

When a paradox occurs in XIII-2, 9 times out of 10, there is a physical distortion. If Alyssa is one of the possibly millions of people affected by the paradoxes pre-fall, why the hell are there no physical distortions during XIII's time and before it?

Chaos affects the past and future AFTER 0 AF. It is supposed to affect things after 0 AF. Otherwise, if it was affected pre-fall,too, paradoxes would have been discovered a long time ago and things would be different. This is logic. Common sense,

That is just you grasping at straws and you have zero proof of that. You are just saving face. If it did not actually reach back into the past itself, then Alyssa SHOULD NOT have been affected. She died BEFORE 0 AF. I proved this in the other topic. Chaos only affects things AFTER 0 AF, otherwise paradoxes would have been noticed and prevalent in XIII's time as well and that'd be a retcon/massive plot hole.

No. Go read the topic. Alyssa died during the Purge, which is before 0 AF, which means that she should not be involved in XIII-2 at all. Plot hole. Period.


It is actually kind of painful reading this. You just seem unable to comprehend the basics of 13-2, and instead are fixated on when Alyssa died, as if that somehow proves anything. Yes, she died during the purge, and yes, this was before the fall. Congratulations...now READ WHAT I WRITE FOR ONCE:

- people would not notice any changes pre-fall because for them, that would be their reality.
- the physical distortions are a representation of Chaos warping time. These do NOT come from the past being rewritten to conform to the new future.
- Alyssa not dying is due to the 'future' Bresha ruins being warped, and the past being rewritten to conform to this new future.
- it DOES NOT MATTER that it was pre-fall, because it is not Chaos directly warping time. It is the bleed-off effect that happens in their universe due to Etro giving humans a soul.
- if you do not know what I mean by this, you did not pay enough attention to the game, and definitely should not be arguing about timelines and paradoxes.
- after the Alyssa paradox is resolved, you can open Bresha 100, a timeline where she died during the purge.
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#95kirusuPosted 2/5/2013 12:22:50 PM
hyro56 posted...
theofficefan99 posted...
Don't worry potato ill give you a full response when I get home.


You're wasting your time. Have a conversation with an actual intelligent life form.


so whats that life form?
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#96Ether101Posted 2/5/2013 12:26:19 PM
theofficefan99 posted...
meltonbj posted...
It's not a plot hole. Chaos has the ability to warp the timeline retroactively. We know this because chaos allows you to travel back to when Vanille was crystallized.

XIII-2s story is awful, but I noticed this so I thought I should probably pipe up.


That makes no sense, because if it had the power to warp the timeline retroactively, things would be a lot different; paradoxes and whatnot would show up in XIII, and since a lot of paradoxes in the XIII universe are visible and are acknowledged by everyone, people would have been able to spot paradoxes a long time ago and the cast of XIII should have spotted a few in Pulse while they were there.

And the fact that they went back in time is a "paradox," along with a crystallized Vanille being there, since she was crystallized in the Vestige and not in Oerba. This is also literally the only time chaos has warped the timeline before 0 AF.

So still a plot hole, it is not fixed by the fact that there is one scene where the rules are bent because of a "paradox."


A plot hole would be that the Seven Ancient Sages being formed before the Imprisoning War even thou we know that the back story to ALttP has to be true because because two of the seven were still alive during the events of the game.
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#97chocolatesodaPosted 2/5/2013 1:54:07 PM(edited)
Is officefan still trying to say that's a plot hole? Haters are getting more and more desperate...

Of course, I am sure no hater wants to be associated with him.
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#98hyro56Posted 2/5/2013 1:54:40 PM
chocolatesoda posted...
Is officefan still trying to say that's a plot hole? Haters are getting more and more desperate...

Of course, I am sure no hater wants to be associated with him.


Says the filthy brony.

The irony is killing me.
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#99chocolatesodaPosted 2/5/2013 2:01:07 PM
hyro56 posted...
chocolatesoda posted...
Is officefan still trying to say that's a plot hole? Haters are getting more and more desperate...

Of course, I am sure no hater wants to be associated with him.


Says the filthy brony.

The irony is killing me.


The brony fanbase knows better. Sure, we have some undesirables, but they don't compare to the FF fanbase.
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#100gjvaquinoPosted 2/5/2013 2:16:37 PM
chocolatesoda posted...
Is officefan still trying to say that's a plot hole? Haters are getting more and more desperate...

Of course, I am sure no hater wants to be associated with him.


How is officefan a hater?. If anything i think he loves the FF series more than anbody in this forum. Who wouldnt be upset at the direction that the series is going. Most of their games right now, esepcially the mainstream ff's are lazy, cash-grabs, story and plot are set aside for shinier graphics. It is because he cares about ff's that he's trying to enforce change even if its just one person at a time which to me is admirable. At least he's trying to do something. All the research that does probably takes alot of time and effort. I think you're the real hater cause ur too blinded to see that there is something wrong with the series and you continue to swallow whatever SE gives you.
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