What is a villain sue? Spoilz

#31mistermikeymikePosted 4/27/2013 11:34:45 PM
If Mary Sue is the perfect hero, then villain sue is the perfect villain. Perfect villains are no fun. Taking over the world/destroying the world/anything to do with the world is no fun. People that powerful don't make for good story telling.
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#32mad_hax_manPosted 4/28/2013 3:11:05 AM
roxas9001 posted...


He's good at CQC and magic who cares.


He's not just good at CQC. He's incredibly strong, able to jump high distances, slice up buildings and extremely fast. He's not just good at magic, he's able to summon meteors gigantic, transform into Bahmut, and summon monsters. This coupled with the immortality and the ability to communicate with his past versions of himself is part of what makes him a sue. You would expect some enhancements from having the heart of a god in you, but you would expect those enhancements to be more consistent.

1) So he had three plans and succeeded in the first one?

Yes, plan 1 was to have Noel kill him but at the time Noel lacked conviction

Plan 2 was to personally kill Etro but he was eternally stalemated by Light

Plan 3 was to smash Bhunivelzi into old Cocoon but N/S got in the way

Since Noel had gotten tough over the journey, Caius went back to plan 1.


No, it was all plan 1. He attacked Bhunivelzi so he could lure Noel into Valhalla, where Noel would destroy Etros heart but for some reason he would survive.

2) How does that makes any sense?

Just think of him as a spirit.


Except he's not.

People here hate Cauis because he's a desperate attempt to over compensate for the complaints over Dysley. They hate him because the universe makes it impossible for him to loose.

Fixed that for ya.


I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that people on this board didn't count as people
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#33King_Shortt_IXPosted 4/28/2013 5:54:43 AM
Caius was needed in order to provide a counter balance to the Mary Sue.
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#34roxas9001(Topic Creator)Posted 4/28/2013 2:40:17 PM
He's not just good at CQC. He's incredibly strong, able to jump high distances, slice up buildings and extremely fast. He's not just good at magic, he's able to summon meteors, transform into Bahmut, and summon monsters. This coupled with the immortality and the ability to communicate with his past versions of himself is part of what makes him a sue. You would expect some enhancements from having the heart of a god in you, but you would expect those enhancements to be more consistent.

1. Big deal, almost every villain in this damn series can use "Meteor"

2. The heart only makes the user immortal.

3. Almost every villain can do the same thing.

4. He can only do that while in Valhalla/The Unseen Realm.

No, it was all plan 1. He attacked Bhunivelzi so he could lure Noel into Valhalla, where Noel would destroy Etros heart but for some reason he would survive.

The ultimania says otherwise.

http://imageshack.us/a/img717/4355/20120706130730666.jpg

After Caius confirms that the world ends in 700AF, ravaged by the great construct war, he's thinking that he wants to hurry up and free Yeul of her suffering. With that plan he goes to Valhalla. His plan is to envelop the real word (seen world) with Valhalla's Chaos and let time end. For that reason, he plans to kill the goddess that has been holding down Chaos as a means to let Chaos flow out (graph: column A). There he is stopped by Lightning. Then he wants to make Cocoon fall and cause the death of many humans, thereby opening the Gate from which Chaos can flow into the world (graph: column B). Here he is stopped by Serah and Noel. Those two plans he is setting into motion at roughly the same time. Lastly, being stabbed by Noel, he can release chaos through the curse that is the heart of Etro. The Goddess erased and his plan comes to fruition.


Except he's not.

I said THINK.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that people on this board didn't count as people

They cry about anything and scream out plotholes for anything so no people here don't count.
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#35Rodrigo996Posted 4/28/2013 2:42:39 PM
Elice_Carol posted...
From: Rodrigo996 | #012
Well he wants to save Yeul. Still that ant good guy at all. He considers that the life of one person matters more that the life of all mankind. Even Lightning prioresses the world over Serah most times.


Does she?

Also, considering that Caius succeeds in killing the goddess of death (effectively rendering everyone immortal in the sense that they can only die through murder and stuff) it seems like he's saved mankind from their ticking lifespans. Yeul was his main priority though, she's probably the only person he's been able to open his heart to over the course of so many centuries and her fate only drives his determination further.


Yeah but i remember Noel said something like that isn't true life and stuff.
#36Lindaru111Posted 4/28/2013 11:53:00 PM
Caius was protected by plot armor and he also trolled Player when you got all 160 fragments...
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#37AngryGFAQerPosted 4/29/2013 12:59:40 AM
Lindaru111 posted...
Caius was protected by plot armor and he also trolled Player when you got all 160 fragments...


Everything in XIII is protected by plot armour.
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#38roxas9001(Topic Creator)Posted 5/1/2013 7:00:54 PM
AngryGFAQer posted...
Lindaru111 posted...
Caius was protected by plot armor and he also trolled Player when you got all 160 fragments...


Everything in XIII is protected by plot armour.


Don't remember Cid being protected by plot.
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#39xhominidPosted 5/3/2013 12:55:38 PM
From: chaosflame108 | #026

His strength is a mish-mash of unrelated powers that just happen to be cool. He's an immortal time traveler who can summon meteors, turn into a dragon, and be in multiple dimensions at once. Who shares his heart with a goddess. Most of Caius's abilities aren't really thematically consistent and don't symbolize anything, he's just overpowered to be overpowered. And he can never be beaten; final fight aside (which he lost on purpose), every time you win a boss fight against him he either kicks your ass in the cutscene afterwards or simply restores himself from "dead" to perfect health and goes about his business as if your actions mean nothing (and really, they don't). It's like he came from a fanfic.

Speaking of fanfiction, Caius's role in the plot is contrived. His existence and job received a grand total of 0 foreshadowing in the first game, yet out of nowhere he's Lightning's arch-nemesis. Plus he'd be a complete non-factor if Etro wasn't a sentimental idiot; he's waging war against the goddess with the power she herself gave him.

And his plans work far too perfectly. He has multiple backup plans but none are ever necessary because the heroes fail to stop the main one in the first place. Like the fal'Cie of the first game, even when the heroes are blatantly told what he wants to happen and how they can avoid it they just go with the flow anyway and he succeeds effortlessly. The difference is that the fal'Cie actually die in the end, while even when Caius's plan is supposed to involve some sort of sacrifice on his part he still comes out unscathed. XIII-2 ends with memories of his words mocking the heroes as his plan dooms the world; the 100% completion ending features Caius mocking the player and revealing that he's still alive when his whole highly-successful master plan relied on him being killed. With no actual explanation provided for the phenomenon. XIII-2's gimmick was time travel and paradoxes and to follow suit the villain itself was a paradox.

And within all this Caius still isn't presented as someone you should simply hate, he's given a "sympathetic" backstory and goal full of tears and love.


Caius isn't unbeatable, if anything he comes off pretty pathetic. The story infers that Lightning has been stuck in a loop with Caius for an extended amount of time. Their dead locked, he just can't seem to beat her. So instead of repeatedly having his ass handed to him(did you watch Light and Caius' fight?), he decided to use misdirection and trick Noel/Serah into fulfilling his plan.

Another thing, Caius didn't throw his final 13-2 battle. His intention may have been to lose, but he didn't intentionally pull his punches. Noel knocks him unconscious, and the chaos begins to overflow and take over his body. The final boss is referred to as "Winged Chaos;" Serah and Noel weren't fighting Caius, they were fighting Chaos itself.


I pretty much agree here. Alot of people like to say Caius was given a "sympathetic backstory" that's supposed to make him deep for all the BS he does, but it's honestly an effective backstory and I learned to ignore them when people blasted Hope in XIII for daring to have feelings after his life basically crashed at 14 years old.
And yeah, the story actually did show Lightning and Caius was deadlocked for centuries, Caius only gotten the upperhand ONCE and that was through deception in the first place.
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#40westontickleePosted 5/3/2013 12:58:15 PM
wafflepitarm posted...
Tiael posted...
kupo1705 posted...
Why should I bother when you're just going to say 'No, you're wrong'?


Hi liar.


Kupo is the most genuine person on here. Moogles should be left alone.


Lol no
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