An idea that could have gotton rid of the Datalog in Final Fantasy XIII

#1Dabrikishaw15Posted 5/18/2013 11:49:18 AM
One thing I notice is that the setup of X and XII meant that a lot of the setting had to be explained to Tidus and Vaan, being unused to the wider world. In XIII, they had the setting, but you had to look it up, or wait to much later cutscenes to understand some things. At least, that's what people say. I have my own disagreements, but that's another story.

But the real weird thing is, in XIII we have the characters of Fang and Vanille, who are genuinely ignorant of most of the world of Cocoon, who would need things explained to them that don't get explained, and then finally when they get to Pulse the rest of the party is just as ignorant of that world, and would need their Pulsian friends to explain certain things. Neither happens.

I don't like XIII much, but would XIII have been improved somewhat in the eyes of most people if Vanille had been more definitely the "protagonist" that we saw the world through, and needed details explained to her, while Lightning is set up as the "hero" who will save the day but ultimately doesn't?
---
Fact: All fanbases are unpleaseable, deal with it.
http://i.minus.com/ixGBrDD4hclHn.gif
#2MagiusNecrosPosted 5/18/2013 11:51:35 AM
You'd think denizens of Cocoon and the actual planet Gran Pulse would know about it since Cocoon is data integrated and certain characters are employed into certain occupations but lolnope just a bunch of dumbass kids in adult bodies save for Sazh.
---
I have always hoped for a BERSERK Final Fantasy Game to be made realized.
Official GILGAMESH of every Gamefaqs Board
#3kupo1705Posted 5/18/2013 11:56:05 AM
There could have NPCs that tell you things about the world.

Nah, thatīs stupid.
#4Dabrikishaw15(Topic Creator)Posted 5/18/2013 12:59:41 PM
From: MagiusNecros | #002
You'd think denizens of Cocoon and the actual planet Gran Pulse would know about it since Cocoon is data integrated and certain characters are employed into certain occupations but lolnope just a bunch of dumbass kids in adult bodies save for Sazh.


Wow.
---
Fact: All fanbases are unpleaseable, deal with it.
http://i.minus.com/ixGBrDD4hclHn.gif
#5Elice_CarolPosted 5/18/2013 1:02:38 PM
Maybe if Vanille was the actual main protagonist, things would be a bit easier to lay out.
---
"I imagined many moons in the sky, lighting the way to freedom.'' - Cindi Mayweather
http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n496/Elice_Carol/
#6MalakTawusPosted 5/18/2013 3:05:12 PM
I really don't understand why for so many people the datalog was a problem.......no wait, i actually understand their point of view, it's just that i really don't feel the same, on the contrary i actually like reading the datalog.

Maybe it's just me, but it was always this way for me, even before FFXIII.

My favorite "datalogs" not-FFXIII-related would be the ones in Xenosaga, i loved them (and don't even try to say that they weren't necessary to understand the story 'cause that would be an huge fat lie..........well, of course not everything was necessary,lol)



Anyway, returning to the core of this topic, i don't think that using the excuse to "explain things to a character to actually explain things to the player" would have been a good idea for FFXIII since it would feel very unnatural 'cause tons of those infos may be new to the player but should be basic knowledge for the characters...........


.....better the datalog,at least for me :)
---
"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."
#7DragoonGriffithPosted 5/18/2013 4:11:54 PM
MalakTawus posted...
I really don't understand why for so many people the datalog was a problem.......no wait, i actually understand their point of view, it's just that i really don't feel the same, on the contrary i actually like reading the datalog.

Maybe it's just me, but it was always this way for me, even before FFXIII.

My favorite "datalogs" not-FFXIII-related would be the ones in Xenosaga, i loved them (and don't even try to say that they weren't necessary to understand the story 'cause that would be an huge fat lie..........well, of course not everything was necessary,lol)



Anyway, returning to the core of this topic, i don't think that using the excuse to "explain things to a character to actually explain things to the player" would have been a good idea for FFXIII since it would feel very unnatural 'cause tons of those infos may be new to the player but should be basic knowledge for the characters...........


.....better the datalog,at least for me :)


Sounds reasonable enough, and you did say it's how you feel about it.

As long as you understand that not everyone likes to go out of their way to read about the story (whether it's the datalogs, or Ulitimanias and various Novels), and prefers the rest of the story being actually shown, I don't think there's a problem.

Xenogears had a lot of story content cut out (and don't let me get started on the lack of gameplay on the 2nd disc), but that was for example a story I didn't mind reading up on other sources besides the game.

I guess it really depends on how much someones enjoyed the story to begin with, in order to invest more time reading up about it.
---
http://i.imgur.com/ITyrPBO.jpg
Annie and Leia fan.
#8tiornysPosted 5/18/2013 10:22:11 PM
Elice_Carol posted...
Maybe if Vanille was the actual main protagonist, things would be a bit easier to lay out.

---
http://etrosgate.com/
#9DViper97Posted 5/19/2013 12:44:49 AM(edited)
@Dragoon and Mark:

I am totally in agreement with Mark, as I absolutely share his enjoyment of features such as XIII's datalog, or XII's Bestiary for that matter.

I find it both ironic and frustrating that so many people ***** about XIII's datalog, but didn't say anything about a single one of the databases from any of the three Xenosaga games. I mean, there's a damn good reason Ep. III's version is called the Xenobible.

What's more, no body brings up Star Ocean 3's Dictonary. Although I've yet to get far in the game, the Dictionary contains a wealth of detailed info from the very beginning. Given the fact that, unlike XIII's datalog, SO3's Dictionary creates one, or more, new entries depending on the entry currently being accessed, it can take just under an hour to read through it all. Again, this is within the first minutes of the game, prior to even entering the Battle Simulator for the first time.

I'm not even going to include some of the contemporary western RPGs that also have pretty lengthy and very detailed in-game databases, or a litany of in-game books, of their own; like Dragon Age or Skyrim. All of which help to enhance, explain, or further develop things presented in the storyline proper. Yet, when Final Fantasy does it, and puts it on the main menu, it's a cardinal sin. Ironically, many of the RPGs I mentioned are notably less linear in execution than XIII, containing many of the very RPG tropes that were either missing or at a minimum in XIII (such as NPCs and towns).

In further defense of the Datalog, close to half the topics in it's main menu can, and likely often are, disregarded without issue by the average player. So it's not like one has to read the entire thing for story purposes, even when factoring in all the updates throughout the game. In contrast, IIRC, I think the databases in the Xenosaga games, especially Ep. III, tend to be larger than the Datalog.

I agree, Dragoon, stuff like the Datalog isn't going to be everyone's cup of Windurstrian Tea, especially if they aren't enjoying the story being told in the first place. However, that doesn't mean that all, or even most, dislike it either. Nor is such a feature's inclusion always indicative of a lack in storytelling competency or detail, so as to facilitate it's inclusion. I, for one, happened to enjoy reading the datalog, and definitely found that it further enhanced my connection to the plot, characters, antagonists, and world. Admittedly, it plays a more integral role than, say, XII's bestiary, but it continues to be my experience that it's no replacement for the game's storytelling proper.
---
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here.
#10MalakTawusPosted 5/19/2013 2:58:00 AM(edited)
I think that people that like a "multimedia approach" don't mind a game to be composed not only by the really "playable part" but also by other forms of media like the datalog, extra novels, extra information-books (like "Perfect Works" was for Xenogears for example), maybe even some extra videos.

Players instead that care only about the "playable part of the game" would probably be annoyed by all that 'cause it would feel like all those things are not really "part of the game".

Like i said, it's not that there is right or wrong in this case, it's just a different vision.
..........not to mention that for some of us the first approach to the FFXIII's world was the novel and not even the game itself, so FFXIII really had a very "multimedia" form since the very beginning for me,lol.

The only thing that makes me mad about this matter is that often some of those "extra medias" are never brought outside of Japan so, if we are lucky we have to rely on people translating them unofficially. THAT is annoying, REALLY ANNOYING!
.........but to be fair this is not a SE problem only, it's something that happens in general,unfortunately :(


Finally one last thing, i am NOT Mark, if you people really want to cut my username at least call me Malak,lol. (It's not just you DViper97, you have no idea how often happens,lol)
---
"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."