The Battle System that FFXIII introduced and it's Evolution

#1Critical-LimitPosted 8/17/2013 7:34:41 PM
I just want to talk about the new system and what it means for the future.

I believe it's the right direction, we just had a rough start and let me explain why.

The old system comprised of very often repeating basic commands you would OBVIOUSLY do in specific scenarios and was time consuming. For example, if you had RED HP, you would OBVIOULY want to cure yourself in the most beneficial way possible yes?

I think they tried to cover the "obvious" with the new system as to speed along combat at a nicer pace. The problem with this was though however, that It stripped the "feel" of commanding your party.

I definitely respect the direction they tried to take, but it ultimately backfired because the system did too much for the player while not giving more options. If you're gonna make the simple options easier and more automatic, you should definitely add in more in depth options in other aspects of the game to keep the thinking high and fast paced.

Old FF games and XIII are all reactionary games. You play based upon the opponents actions. In the old system you had to react multiple times to one action, because you literally controlled 3 people. In XIII, you influence your party to behave a specific way under conditions. They still left the option to choose the main characters moves. But they took away APM(Actions per minute) and didn't give anything extra to replace it with making the player feel like they aren't doing as much as they "could" be doing. Despite you had to cancel ATB early to keep chains and adapt to your party members. But outside of that no matter what you say 85% of the game was literally spamming auto-battle and reacting to situations using Paradigms.

Now onto what they've been doing. They are OBVIOUSLY listening to the fans. While they may not be listening to the "no more XIII please" people, they are listening to criticism. And you have to respect that of Square Enix. They are TRYING to appease you. Take my stance, I play Super smash brothers Melee at a competitive level. Nintendo doesn't care about us, they cancel our streams, don't listen to their fanbase about them wanting a competitive game. They don't support us in Esports. They don't care.

Square Enix DOES care, and they do it through their actions (Lately). Open world, side quests, no more hallways, ect ect.

I think you all will eventually be more accepting once they evolve this gameplay. They may be using XIII as a testing ground to improve their new direction with how the game is played. and if you don't think it's getting more deep and strategic you'd be lying to yourself.

-Position on the battle field matters now
-Where you attack matters even more now (an attribute missing mostly in XIII outside of adamantoise, type mobs)
-Defense matters, negating every hit with block/evade will test your reflexes, or you'll pay out of your pocket for your mistakes.
-Face buttons assignment for moves, so you don't have to go through a MENU screen in a active battle. Which is why MOST people chose auto-combat in XIII because they couldn't take the time to select 6 moves before the gauge filled.
-GP some new system I'm not in complete understanding yet, Reminds me of what we had in terms of XIII to summon/use special rare moves.


And when you guys get that future FF title that IS AMAZING, you will have FFXIII to thank for being basically a guinea pig/ semi-beta tester to help them improve.


All in all, I'm glad they took this direction and I hope it works out. I much prefer this PACE(speed) over the old games, To make up for the APM drop, they are adding newer elements to it to keep it deep/strategic.

It's getting better and if you deny that you're lying to yourself.
#2LolOkayPosted 8/18/2013 3:44:29 AM
Critical-Limit posted...
But outside of that no matter what you say 85% of the game was literally spamming auto-battle and reacting to situations using Paradigms.


Lol k.
#3dils-dPosted 8/18/2013 3:57:14 AM
Critical-Limit posted...
The old system comprised of very often repeating basic commands you would OBVIOUSLY do in specific scenarios and was time consuming. For example, if you had RED HP, you would OBVIOULY want to cure yourself in the most beneficial way possible yes?


Is this different from any other RPG?
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#4KimMohicanTribePosted 8/18/2013 4:04:48 AM
I didnt know L1 X, L1 X, L1X was revolutionary lol.
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#5Critical-Limit(Topic Creator)Posted 8/18/2013 4:45:00 AM
KimMohicanTribe posted...
I didnt know L1 X, L1 X, L1X was revolutionary lol.


I'm not saying XIII was revolutionary,

What I'm saying is, it STARTED a different system. The problem was it started too bland.


I feel like you guys aren't fully reading what I'm saying or comprehending it.

I'm saying look at Lightning returns compared to XIII

It's pretty much the same system. But they keep adding more DEPTH to it.

meaning eventually I believe the end result of this new system will be good for the franchise.

We just got the system in it's infant stage.
#6notrandomPosted 8/18/2013 4:54:00 AM
FFX-2 was the ultimate right direction the FF battle system should of gone in. FFXIII is a simplistic joke that trivializes everything about what it means to play a RPG.

If the battle system truly needed to evolve then FFXII was what it should of continued as. Such control over the battle was truly fun and way too ahead of it's time for all the kids who played it when it came out.
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#7Critical-Limit(Topic Creator)Posted 8/18/2013 5:10:21 AM
notrandom posted...
FFX-2 was the ultimate right direction the FF battle system should of gone in. FFXIII is a simplistic joke that trivializes everything about what it means to play a RPG.

If the battle system truly needed to evolve then FFXII was what it should of continued as. Such control over the battle was truly fun and way too ahead of it's time for all the kids who played it when it came out.


I disagree, because XII was heading in the exact same direction as Dragon Age games. As I don't hate Dragon Age games.

In XII you could set up your gambits to the point it was worse than XIII in doing things for you.



Nobody here is saying FFXIII is the best system.

I clearly state it's not in the OP. and you can clearly see me make semi-fun of it.

Did you even read it? TLDR?

Then read this.

FFXIII started something new, but it was in it's infant stages, so limits weren't obviously pushed yet. And each sequel we've seen come out. they keep pushing the system to add more variables to battle.

I think the end result will be really good, it's just taking SE a bit too long to reach it.





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example:
I think and still think Resident Evil Outbreak games had a lot of potential to be REALLY fun games. the problem was it was in its infant stages much like XIII. in Outbreak file 2 they added new elements. I think if the RE community didn't abandon the game and left it showing negative results. We would have a very awesome end product by today's date. But they discontinued it because it wasn't awesome on the first try.


I'd prefer XIII had been atleast lightning returns caliber of depth, but we didn't get that. But I can CLEARLY see more depth/variables being added each game that develop more thought and apm.
#8Critical-Limit(Topic Creator)Posted 8/18/2013 5:20:04 AM
dils-d posted...
Critical-Limit posted...
The old system comprised of very often repeating basic commands you would OBVIOUSLY do in specific scenarios and was time consuming. For example, if you had RED HP, you would OBVIOULY want to cure yourself in the most beneficial way possible yes?


Is this different from any other RPG?


That one quote was a bigger part of what I had to say. the reason I talked about that was because in the old games. You would see red HP, and go through the menu for each character on your team to do cures. So you'd end up sometimes doing like 5 commands for cures.

All I'm saying is the OBVIOUS choices you'd make in a situation were taken away from you in XIII, meaning instead of individually casting cure, your party would auto-cure the weakest/heal up until you changed paradigms again.

Or if you get enfeebled, They will cast ailments to remove them automatically. Where as in the old game you'd have to go find eye drops or something in your inventory to cure blind. Where in XIII, as long as your in healer mode, your party will cure/remove ailments for you, until you decide to change battle strategy.


That's all I'm saying. People act like the old system was SUPER DEEP. It was alright, it was just time consuming on some aspects that were naturally obvious what you should be doing to maintain battle.
#9KimMohicanTribePosted 8/18/2013 5:21:08 AM
Critical-Limit posted...
KimMohicanTribe posted...
I didnt know L1 X, L1 X, L1X was revolutionary lol.


I'm not saying XIII was revolutionary,

What I'm saying is, it STARTED a different system. The problem was it started too bland.


I feel like you guys aren't fully reading what I'm saying or comprehending it.

I'm saying look at Lightning returns compared to XIII

It's pretty much the same system. But they keep adding more DEPTH to it.

meaning eventually I believe the end result of this new system will be good for the franchise.

We just got the system in it's infant stage.


You're right. LR will be a far more better game than XIII.
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#10Critical-Limit(Topic Creator)Posted 8/18/2013 5:31:50 AM
KimMohicanTribe posted...
Critical-Limit posted...
KimMohicanTribe posted...
I didnt know L1 X, L1 X, L1X was revolutionary lol.


I'm not saying XIII was revolutionary,

What I'm saying is, it STARTED a different system. The problem was it started too bland.


I feel like you guys aren't fully reading what I'm saying or comprehending it.

I'm saying look at Lightning returns compared to XIII

It's pretty much the same system. But they keep adding more DEPTH to it.

meaning eventually I believe the end result of this new system will be good for the franchise.

We just got the system in it's infant stage.


You're right. LR will be a far more better game than XIII.


Glad we're on the same page now :D