Are both XIII-2 and LR fanfiction-quality compared to XIII or not?

#61RedZakuPosted 12/29/2013 12:51:00 AM
Aqua_Light_13 posted...
No. I disagree. The lore of FFXIII was unique and a lot more complicated than the other FFs.


No, it really wasn't. At it's core it's a very simplistic tale that the writer actually manage to screw up horribly. It's actually sort of funny, that they wrote themselves into such a complete hole their only salvation was a deus-ex-machina

Bhunivelze and his 3 creations were unique, and kinda resembled the deities of Babylonian's myth.


The entire point of being unique is that it doesn't possess a comparison. If you can point to something else and go, this is like that, then it's not actually unique.

Fal'cie and L'cie's relationship. The turning to crystal and cieth theme. Cocoon being a satellite to Gran Pulse with real people living in it and were considered vipers, also were meant as a sacrifice to bring back the Maker. There was nothing like this in previous FFs.


People being sacrificed to a god? Done before several times, and played totally straight in FF7 where he's sacrificing the planet and possibly all human life to make himself a god.

FFX Human sacrificing themselves to become mythical god-like creatures called Aeons.

Final Fantasy Tactics/FFT:War of the Lions
People sacrificed to return a god of destruction that will purge the world.

The L'cie relationship isn't unique either. Bounding with a summon to gain super powers was done in FFVI, FFVIII, and plenty of FF's before that.

Turning into Ci'eth if you failed your task? Well, kind of done before too except the punishment was just death.

But then, being complicated is a double-edged sword, which if horribly told, it would ruin the entirety of the story, which is what happened with the XIII series.


The heads I win, tails you lose trope has been done to death in Final Fantasy. The fact this sort of thing even has a trope is all off the evidence you need that this isn't as unique as you think it is.
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-PSN: SeigZeon
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#62SuperXThousandPosted 12/29/2013 1:02:44 AM
Aqua_Light_13 posted...
Fal'cie and L'cie's relationship.


Have to agree. The idea of Fal'Cie communicating to l'cie with such a rubbish Focus mechanism (10 sec. shaky cam clip of their future) is uniquely absurd. Bravo SE. And the incentives! Do what I say and turn to crystal until I need to risk your life again! Don't do what I say and turn into a monster! BTW you only have a few days and if you stress out you'll rapidly run out of time.

I don't think I've encountered anything quite like it before.
#63SuperXThousandPosted 12/29/2013 1:14:20 AM
@RedZaku: you're that there have been similar ideas tossed about before, even in the FF series, but I've never seen a take on it quite like this. It's unique enough once it all comes together.
#64Aqua_Light_13Posted 12/29/2013 1:24:40 AM
RedZaku posted...
No, it really wasn't. At it's core it's a very simplistic tale that the writer actually manage to screw up horribly. It's actually sort of funny, that they wrote themselves into such a complete hole their only salvation was a deus-ex-machina


If you're going to strip every single story to its core, then nothing made this century is unique at all in your book.

The entire point of being unique is that it doesn't possess a comparison. If you can point to something else and go, this is like that, then it's not actually unique.


Which is why I said "specifically FF". Because I couldn't find any other FF than I could compare to.

People being sacrificed to a god? Done before several times, and played totally straight in FF7 where he's sacrificing the planet and possibly all human life to make himself a god.

FFX Human sacrificing themselves to become mythical god-like creatures called Aeons.

Final Fantasy Tactics/FFT:War of the Lions
People sacrificed to return a god of destruction that will purge the world.

The L'cie relationship isn't unique either. Bounding with a summon to gain super powers was done in FFVI, FFVIII, and plenty of FF's before that.

Turning into Ci'eth if you failed your task? Well, kind of done before too except the punishment was just death.


No. You can't compare things like this. Islam and Christianity both believe in one heavenly being, that God is one and incomparable. Are they the same thing? Is there nothing unique to each one of them? No to both.

I didn't talk about *just* human sacrificing themselves to become something else. I talked about the whole floating planet *being* sacrificed in bulk to open the door to another realm to bring back the Maker. The closest to this you said is FFT which I haven't played but that didn't even involve a small planet and nowhere near as large scale as this.

Turning into Ci'eth and and crystal has never been done before because people weren't dead when they turned. Ci'eth is a living creature without its humanity. Turning to crystal grants an eternal life. Or the person can turn back to human again after a long time and find him/herself living in another time, place or age. Nothing like this in previous FFs.

Summon wasn't new, but L'cie and Fal'cie relationship was new, because one is a servant of another. Tell me another FF that had the main characters being bind to another higher being as servants?

The heads I win, tails you lose trope has been done to death in Final Fantasy. The fact this sort of thing even has a trope is all off the evidence you need that this isn't as unique as you think it is.


Just because things share the same trope doesn't mean they can't be done in a way that is unique and new.
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#65Aqua_Light_13Posted 12/29/2013 1:26:17 AM
SuperXThousand posted...
Aqua_Light_13 posted...
Fal'cie and L'cie's relationship.


Have to agree. The idea of Fal'Cie communicating to l'cie with such a rubbish Focus mechanism (10 sec. shaky cam clip of their future) is uniquely absurd. Bravo SE. And the incentives! Do what I say and turn to crystal until I need to risk your life again! Don't do what I say and turn into a monster! BTW you only have a few days and if you stress out you'll rapidly run out of time.

I don't think I've encountered anything quite like it before.


The potential was there though.
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#66RedZakuPosted 12/29/2013 2:34:38 AM
Aqua_Light_13 posted...
If you're going to strip every single story to its core, then nothing made this century is unique at all in your book. Which is why I said "specifically FF". Because I couldn't find any other FF than I could compare to.


Nothing is unique at this point no, that doesn't mean it's bad. It simply means it's not unique. You can you're just not looking particularly hard enough.

No. You can't compare things like this. Islam and Christianity both believe in one heavenly being, that God is one and incomparable. Are they the same thing? Is there nothing unique to each one of them? No to both.


Umm...yes you can people regularly compare the two, it's fairly easy. Islam and Christianity both believe in the exact same god. Islam and Judaism are literally about the exact same god and they do have many things in common.

I didn't talk about *just* human sacrificing themselves to become something else. I talked about the whole floating planet *being* sacrificed in bulk to open the door to another realm to bring back the Maker. The closest to this you said is FFT which I haven't played but that didn't even involve a small planet and nowhere near as large scale as this.


>.> FFT Involved killing an entire population of people of people to turn into human sacrifices.

Turning into Ci'eth and and crystal has never been done before because people weren't dead when they turned. Ci'eth is a living creature without its humanity. Turning to crystal grants an eternal life. Or the person can turn back to human again after a long time and find him/herself living in another time, place or age. Nothing like this in previous FFs.


People turning into other creatures and living on to other realities? Terra doesn't count? also, turning into Ci'eth and turning back again was the intervention of a goddess it's not something you were supposed to be able to do ever. The most you got was either a stone ending. ALA what happens to Espers in FFVI, or you turn into crystal.

Summon wasn't new, but L'cie and Fal'cie relationship was new, because one is a servant of another. Tell me another FF that had the main characters being bind to another higher being as servants? Just because things share the same trope doesn't mean they can't be done in a way that is unique and new.


FFT, had people bound to evil spirits which would use them as vessels and servants of their will. This was also a theme FFX, Yuna is a servant to the will of the Aeon's who in return for serving their will to defeat SIN allow Yuna to use their powers.

A rose by any other name. How it happens is sort of irrelevant to the fact it's been done before.
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-PSN: SeigZeon
Your logic fails more than the shields of the U. S. S. Enterprise.
#67SuperXThousandPosted 12/29/2013 4:41:30 AM
Aqua_Light_13 posted...
The potential was there though.


Not in this form.