Final Verdict: Should Toriyama be fired?

#71finalfantasy94Posted 6/5/2014 10:43:18 AM
I dont think someone should be fired cause some people didint like the game.
#72Strider102Posted 6/5/2014 11:07:08 AM
finalfantasy94 posted...
I dont think someone should be fired cause some people didint like the game.


Some people take video games too seriously.
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Strider is something of a god of equine necro-brutality. -Master ZED
#73mrklarrydPosted 6/10/2014 12:56:48 PM
Strider102 posted...
I've been wondering something.

Let's ignore Toriyama for a minute for the sake of this.

Let's say Toriyama was in no way, shape, or form involved with XIII and the trilogy.

Now let's say you had either Kitase, Nomura, or even Sakaguchi as the lead for it. However XIII remains as it is now.

Would anyone even have the mere thought of any one of these three getting fired?


If Sakaguchi, as CEO, personally directed a product whose third iteration sold < 1/9 of its first iteration, the probability of him being forced out over that is 100%. It's worth noting that his successor WAS terminated a year or two ago, with the board citing underperforming products. That he would be artistically involved with the second-largest of those would be an extra nail in the coffin.


Nomura's a bit iffy. It depends how critical he is to square-enix's business relationship with Disney. I know of sales people with known substance abuse problems that were kept on simply because they had too positive a relationship with a large client to let go of. If firing Nomura would jeopardize that, reassignment would probably be the preferred choice.


Kitase could be argued to be even more worthy of being fired in his position as producer than he would be had he been the director. Anything you can put on Toriyama's head is on Kitase's too, except moreso.

Underling delivers a flagship project 2 or 3 years late and way over budget. Same underling delivers a second project whose sales are 1/3 of the first. Same underling delivers a third project whose sales are 1/3 of that.

When the VP of a division allows this chain of events to remain ongoing for years, they are, in my experience, nearly always axed (unless they're an investor's brother-in-law or something). That Kitase had a great artistic track record 20 years ago doesn't mean to a board what you might think it would mean.

I'm not sure what's saving him, exactly, whether it's a personal relationship or just Japanese cultural reticence to terminate people (something Square Enix has not shown a lot of in the past by the way), but in any US corporation, he'd be long gone, whether he was director or producer (unless he was married to someone on the board or something).


Would the games have been received as poorly as they are/have been/were?


Yes, but "poor reception" isn't what gets people from Director to CEO terminated. Politics, ROI and brand value are all that matters on those levels.
#74lindaluvPosted 6/10/2014 1:59:20 PM
mrklarryd posted...
brand value


I think this is the key point here. Brand value. If someone does something that hits the brand value and lowers it or hurts it, they will most likely be released or removed. So we have to ask now... how badly did the FF13 series lower the FF brand name/value?
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#75mrklarrydPosted 6/10/2014 5:33:29 PM
lindaluv posted...
mrklarryd posted...
brand value


I think this is the key point here. Brand value. If someone does something that hits the brand value and lowers it or hurts it, they will most likely be released or removed. So we have to ask now... how badly did the FF13 series lower the FF brand name/value?


That is the most-important question, isn't it?


mrklarryd posted...

Nomura's a bit iffy. It depends how critical he is to square-enix's business relationship with Disney. I know of sales people with known substance abuse problems that were kept on simply because they had too positive a relationship with a large client to let go of. If firing Nomura would jeopardize that, reassignment would probably be the preferred choice.


Just to elaborate on this, the more I think about it, the more I think Nomura would survive something Sakaguchi would not and Kitase/Toriyama probably shouldn't, depending on what brand confidence analyses say vs 5 years ago.

Videogames are not the only thing Square Enix does. They're also a manufacturer of collectibles (art books, replicas, action figures and gaudy-looking jewelry).

I'm pretty sure that business is booming and Nomura designs a lot of that junk. If I'm right, there's probably nothing he can do, performance-wise, in the games division that could get him fired.
#76Pirate_DuckPosted 6/10/2014 7:27:57 PM
mrklarryd posted...

I'm pretty sure that business is booming and Nomura designs a lot of that junk. If I'm right, there's probably nothing he can do, performance-wise, in the games division that could get him fired.


The World holds it's breath for FFXV's sale's figures...
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#77Strider102Posted 6/10/2014 10:28:26 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#78Strider102Posted 6/10/2014 10:34:02 PM(edited)
Pirate_Duck posted...
mrklarryd posted...

I'm pretty sure that business is booming and Nomura designs a lot of that junk. If I'm right, there's probably nothing he can do, performance-wise, in the games division that could get him fired.


The World holds it's breath for FFXV's sale's figures...



I predict 5 million on day one. Cumulative sales at around 15-20 million worldwide within a month.

Followed by people saying Nomura should be fired because it's not Final Fantasy.
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Strider is something of a god of equine necro-brutality. -Master ZED
#79CatMutoPosted 6/11/2014 3:15:01 AM
Strider102 posted...
Pirate_Duck posted...
mrklarryd posted...

I'm pretty sure that business is booming and Nomura designs a lot of that junk. If I'm right, there's probably nothing he can do, performance-wise, in the games division that could get him fired.


The World holds it's breath for FFXV's sale's figures...



I predict 5 million on day one. Cumulative sales at around 15-20 million worldwide within a month.

Followed by people saying Nomura should be fired because it's not Final Fantasy.


Yeah I was gonna say something similar to that...

C-A
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#80mrklarrydPosted 6/11/2014 1:52:31 PM
Strider102 posted...
Pirate_Duck posted...
mrklarryd posted...

I'm pretty sure that business is booming and Nomura designs a lot of that junk. If I'm right, there's probably nothing he can do, performance-wise, in the games division that could get him fired.


The World holds it's breath for FFXV's sale's figures...



I predict 5 million on day one. Cumulative sales at around 15-20 million worldwide within a month.




Unless the release is 5 years from now, there's no way. It could be the concensus best game ever made and there would still be no way.

Every single person who now owns a next gen system would need to buy 3 copies to hit these numbers. And even if the install base triples in the next two years, you'd need to sell 1 copy to each and every person that owns an xbone or a PS4. The chances of that happening are nonexistent.