Is it just me or is purple sharpness not that great?

#341kobecrossoverPosted 5/11/2013 12:16:45 AM
You're trying way too hard to out-think the room. There's a reason why you see so many S+1 builds with lance over mediocre skills like constitution +2, and spamming the lance charge attacks. It's just the most effective approach to completing quest. It was the same on tri, same with mh3U, same on jp speedrun vids and same on USA server. If you can't clearly see that, that's your problem.
#342DesperateMonkey(Topic Creator)Posted 5/11/2013 12:33:30 AM(edited)
Proof that you still don't even have a clue as to whats going on.

First of all, Con +2 isn't being compared directly with S+1, in fact, S+1 has Con +1. The crux of the argument between me and Ulnin is whether that 2.3 to 4.5% damage is all that important.

Just because lots of people USE sharpness +1 does not mean every ounce of damage is as important as people make it out to be. In fact, 2.3% damage makes ridiculously little difference while Con +2 allows me to pass a critical stamina point that essentially puts me at near infinite stamina, especially since extend evade becomes the main method of travel.

It also doubles as a partial Guard +1/2 since it cuts down stamina cost of blocking in half. Con +2, in fact, benefits lancers more since both blocking and evading are important for them.

The whole REASON for this topic is that people are too obsessed with slight damage benefits and don't care about exploring utility and defense skills unless they can get it on top. That 2.3% more damage is suppose to be better than con +2 in every way (according to Ulnir) just shows me how ridiculously idiotic this issue has gotten.

Oh and most importantly... it isn't even about Con +2 being better. Its about con +2 being a good setup. Whether its better depends on what charms you have and how you play. Con +2 is a fun build and I feel like I more than make up for a few % points with my increased mobility and stamina pool.
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#343kobecrossoverPosted 5/11/2013 12:45:05 AM(edited)
"First of all, Con +2 isn't being compared directly with S+1, in fact, S+1 has Con +1. "

Most sane people don't build S+1 with con in the first place. If I want defensive skills, I'm grabbing something else. Hell, it's a skill that could be replaced by an item if I really wanted to.
#344popliyoPosted 5/11/2013 1:00:30 AM(edited)
DesperateMonkey posted...
LOL I just noticed popilyo also talked about the 2 minute sharpen.

This is hilarious, you are saying that people just "leave" the area every 2 minutes? Wtf? I don't even do this. What a freakin waste of time. Sharpening itself is already super slow but at least waiting for a big opening is far more often faster than leaving the area.... Leaving the area is completely map dependent too and what part of the map you are actually on. Your not going to run across the desert to another area just to sharpen........ jesus

Even with same area sharpens, it is significant time lost. Hurts even more when an enemy gets knocked down or blinded out of the air when it happens.

You realize that you are saying Sharpness +1 has a miniscule advantage over expert and AuL right? If you sharpen 4x as often, that advantage is pretty much completely lost.


No, that's not what I'm saying. Yet again you display an amazing affinity for misunderstanding the simplest of things. You're an absolute ignoramus and are quickly becoming a running joke around here; I hope you understand that. The irony in you calling me pathetic is astonishing.

Also, don't kid yourself: you did NOT come in here looking to learn. What you succeeded in , however, was making a complete and utter fool of yourself in a forum of your peers as far as this game is concerned. Congratulations. Judging by the content of this thread, 'desperate' is a title that fits you. Sad.
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trolls are stupid people who have tricked themselves into thinking that merely pretending to be an idiot is different from actually being an idiot. -Detsuaxhe
#345sob_ih8t3j00zPosted 5/11/2013 1:25:27 AM
1. Get purple sharpness to kill faster
2. Get evade+1
3. ???
4. Profit~

/offtopic
The only thing that would mess up people who are evade lancing is the pause right after the attack but before the evade. Things don't miss you right when you press b, things miss you right after you press b to dodge.
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#346UlNinPosted 5/11/2013 3:18:41 AM
Dude,

It's not circular logic. I say S+1 is OP because an added level of Sharpness is OP. It's 10 skill points for 9% raw boost and less bouncing. You want to prove me wrong, demonstrate how any other 10 point armour skill compares.

No one has any problem with people using Lance charges for movement purposes only. If you are lance charging to close distance with the monster and cancel out before you hit it - that is fine. I would have thought that was obvious since the context was your ridiculous Evade Dist-Constitution gimmick. But whatevers, since you are the sole arbiter of "when things are taken out of context".

I am amused that you still characterize AUL and S+1 on lances the way you do. Yes, in the situations where a weapon gains only a small sliver of added sharpness, S+1 provides less damage boost and only mostly an extension of natural Sharpness. In these specific cases, AUL can outperform by a little bit (and also can still be outperformed depending on circumstance). These are the rare cases. Especially considering we're supposedly talking about mid-G Rank. S+1 is the better skill, generally.

Regardless of that - 10 point armour skill, comparable to a 20 point armour skill. And this is in the example you picked, using your interpretation. Even giving you your point on lances (which I still disagree with) - the result is that S+1 is still amazing.

I have interpreted your position as "S+1 is a good armour skill, but it is merely that - "good". Totally over-rated. Thus people should not obsessively build armour sets around it." Does that sound right? Well, in that case, what armour skill should people build their sets around? And even if your answer to that question is "several different ones, whatever is best for the hunt" (a position I agree with BTW) - what armour skill is most likely to be in the mix?
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#347Saiyajin12Posted 5/11/2013 6:38:07 AM
This has been good popcorn read.

Not sure how much it matters who is right anymore, it's like male animals headbutting each other when there aren't any females to court nearby :P

Carry on gentlemen :D


P.S. I think OP just means that sharpness+1 is overrated and he phrased it aggressively to get a reaction. And boy did that work haha. He however didn't realize how much his own buttons would get pushed by the counter arguments. I would say: "Guys, maybe lets just play the game more instead? The time it took to write all of this stuff, look up all them numbers and stuff, you been slaying monsters." But then I wouldn't be reading this stuff while bored at work now would I? So again, carry on gents, carry on.

TL DR
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#348DesperateMonkey(Topic Creator)Posted 5/11/2013 7:47:56 AM(edited)
@Ulnin

Who says you can't have it in most of your builds? I already stated that I do have it in most of my builds and try to fit it in where I can. Yet you prove exactly the problem I am discussing, telling me how you overwhelmingly cannot choose con +2 over a 2-4% attack boost.

Now your argument is that because it costs less points than AuL, it is OPed. This is a huge assumption. AuL to begin with is nowhere near OPed. Also, regardless of points, it is often an issue determined by skills and charms that you possess or coincides with skills you want. For example, if I want rock steady, I can get AuL + Guard1 + Bombardier + Latent Power +Rock Steady. Yet I do not have charms that allows substituting Sharpness +1, which if I want, must take the place of AuL + Bombardier. Same case with evasion +1.

If lots of situations is easy for Sharpness +1 then get it. But by no means is it "OPed". Equivalent attack skills that fit into your set function at almost the same level.

As for your lance charge argument, that is silly. There is no "reason" to stop infront of an enemy and not hit it. I have no idea where you are hearing about this. If you are saying you are dashing to an enemy who has a wall of other players infront of it, then you need to stop (which takes time) then go AROUND them? You would have been better off running. charging is also a huge stamina drain.

Or are you talking about Sharpness where you don't attack with it? There is no reason to if you have excess sharpness and charging gets you tons of hits you wouldn't have otherwise.

Again, you discuss my examples as "specific" but in reality, I've gone over ALL the elemental weapons....

To clarify, you guys have no problems with exceptions (as Kobe is handily demonstrating right now) as long as it favours your argument.

@Pop,

Hilarious, trying to hide amongst the masses. You've been doing that since the beginning of this topic. The "10,000 fools can't be wrong!" mentality is a great argument.

@kobe

LOL now your answer is "lol who needs con +2? Just spam dash juice!". Like I said, you are dancing around like a pony. If I have to use Dash Juice otherwise, than Con +2 is already pretty damn awesome.
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#349DarkRidley6Posted 5/11/2013 8:33:12 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...
@Dark Ridley.

You are correct with those specific numbers but without a practical situation, those numbers can be deceiving. You say that an AuL weapon has to sharpen after 100 attacks. But this is assuming we actually need to sharpen at blue. Realistically, Sharpness +1 weapons at white sharpness is almost the equivalent of Blue sharpness damage so unless the enemy has lots of bouncy parts, I have no more need to sharpen than if it is S+1. The example itself is also very rigid. When S+1 functions well it can be much better and when it functions poorly, it can be much worse.

As I've detailed with various lances, this can work to the detriment of S+1 depending on how much is gained or lost. Your formula is probably a good way to lay out how the comparison would generally work and S+1 maintains better damage throughout more hits in many situations. This also depends on how much you care about the difference as lancers often get a boost around 8%. Players like Ulnin think that this 2% is a ridiculous gap that one cannot subsitute for mere utility skills whereas I don't see it as nearly so valuable. It would take 50 hits to make a difference.


I assumed that because by the time that you are down to blue sharpness, while you do not need to sharpen it is very likely that it will be worth your time to do so. ie. the time taken to sharpen will be made up by the damage difference or the monster will have run off after taking so many attacks (especially in a party). Even if you decide not to sharpen after you drop to blue, i outlined what is best for damage per hit in that situation, Razor Sharp as once everything else has fallen to blue level it will still be at white.

You claim my example is rigid, explain that, because that seems so very wrong to me. As i have no source of how many individual hits any weapon can make before sharpness drops, i chose somewhat arbitrary numbers for the hit counts at seem to roughly line up with good ratio of white to purple sharpness duration for many weapons. Additionally allow me to quote myself here:
"You will need to look at your specific weapon to determine if the bonus from the 60 attacks where AuL is greater or less than the damage bonus from the 100 attacks with sharpness+1 to see which is better for damage.

It is infact going to be a weapon by weapon comparison to determine which is best for that weapon.

You continue to go back to lances, seemingly to demonstrate how they are somehow different from all of the other weapons, this too makes little sense to me as sharpness effects all weapon types the same and the bonus from AuL is determined by weapon type and should be relatively proportional to their raw damage.

DesperateMonkey posted...
The whole REASON for this topic is that people are too obsessed with slight damage benefits and don't care about exploring utility and defense skills unless they can get it on top. That 2.3% more damage is suppose to be better than con +2 in every way (according to Ulnir) just shows me how ridiculously idiotic this issue has gotten.

Oh and most importantly... it isn't even about Con +2 being better. Its about con +2 being a good setup. Whether its better depends on what charms you have and how you play. Con +2 is a fun build and I feel like I more than make up for a few % points with my increased mobility and stamina pool.


It is much easier to mathematically show that Sharpness+1 boosts your damage than it is to show that Con +2 does, which is probably why that is the case. However it is not very hard to have both sharpness+1 and a utility or 2 of your choice, they are hardly exclusive.

Now that part i put in bold, I agree 100%, and that is what i have been trying to say since i entered this topic.
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#350kobecrossoverPosted 5/11/2013 8:54:16 AM(edited)
Con 2 is worthless, if you're a lancer Guard + 2 is way more effective. Your gimmicky build isn't fooling anyone.

"AuL + Guard1 + Bombardier + Latent Power +Rock Steady. Yet I do not have charms that allows substituting Sharpness +1, which if I want, must take the place of AuL + Bombardier."

This is pretty funny, using Miralis armor that revolves around AUL in this the first place. You know you can just make a Rock Steady + Honed Blade blade + armor slots left for you to play with. Enough to add in Guard + 1 or bombardier or whatever is on your edgemaster talisman. Seriously this is just getting too easy.