Helios ZZZXZ - a Wroggi alternative to the X Waist (and the Lagia Sapphires)

#11AxelPoePosted 2/13/2014 5:26:46 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#12Farlaff(Topic Creator)Posted 2/13/2014 6:07:51 PM
Sturm_the_Dark posted...
evillocke posted...
or, you know, you could just use a vangis coil.


This is true, but the Vangis Coil doesn't offer as much versatility (i.e. free slots) as TC's set.

Anyway, this is an awesome setup. I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on this and instead emphasise Helios ZZZXZ - maybe it's something to do with group psychology? I can't see any drawbacks of using this set versus Helios X waist, except the incredibly minor 4 points in defense.


Not a wish to sound overly protective of my Set, but the Tailbone is another pain in the arse to get. I considered that too, in fact, but forgot to mention it on the OP.
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#13AxelPoePosted 2/13/2014 7:11:20 PM(edited)
Let me say this in another way.
This mix sets are only to avoid the farming of rare stuff right?
I made the full set and see no difference between them.
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#14_OZ_Posted 2/13/2014 7:10:37 PM(edited)
I do remember looking at this combination a few months back when I started playing, now this is the problem I see with the setup, while its truth that you can just forget about the h earplugs, its also truth that you cant put more than 4 skills, the helioz z set is basically the all purpose set, wanna know why?, cause you have sharpness+1, which make all the slime weapons the weapon of choice, now thing of the following, you wanna have bombardier in the helioz just for the slime, if you dont have a 10 bomb boost talisman that be 5 slot towards gems, the next is, trying to gem in something useful, the vast mayority of those useful skills require 5 an 8 slots as a minimun to get them, stuff like razor sharp, focus, mind eye, evasion, all that requires a lot of slots to get.

Consider the following, its true you can use a very good talisman, an complete both skills, that still 4 skills, no more, an even if you have the 3 slots remaining, it still makes no different, cause you cant gem in something else, an the mininum slots still 5, so again your only choice will be to complete the high earplugs, I can tell you this cause im always messing around with the armor generator. I have a bomb boost 4 evasion 4 tal, not that great, but even if it was a evasion 6 bomb 10, I still be unable to complete another major skill.

Final note, yes its easier to farm or is it?, wroggi is actually a very uncommon monster to hunt in g rank, nobody really hunt that, an event with your own room you probably wait alot before someone actually joins, that doesnt happen with lagi, you can find plenty of rooms with it, I recommend ivory, an by the way you will need the saphires an mantles later on, so its no really a choice, I prefer to just cut tail, carve an see if a I get something if I do then kill myself 3 times, if not just abandon, a 2 minutes quest with 1 chance of getting saphire or mantles, easily 20 to 30 chances of getting 1 over the course of an hour, now let me tell you, it is a good mix, but you still need the other mix in the long run, the aditional slot will mean more if they where 5 or 6, 3 free slots really are nothing.
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#15ZerekrielPosted 2/13/2014 9:34:06 PM
_OZ_ posted...
I do remember looking at this combination a few months back when I started playing, now this is the problem I see with the setup, while its truth that you can just forget about the h earplugs, its also truth that you cant put more than 4 skills, the helioz z set is basically the all purpose set, wanna know why?, cause you have sharpness+1, which make all the slime weapons the weapon of choice, now thing of the following, you wanna have bombardier in the helioz just for the slime, if you dont have a 10 bomb boost talisman that be 5 slot towards gems, the next is, trying to gem in something useful, the vast mayority of those useful skills require 5 an 8 slots as a minimun to get them, stuff like razor sharp, focus, mind eye, evasion, all that requires a lot of slots to get.


First of all, Sharpness +1 does not automatically make Slime weapons the weapon of choice. There are plenty of other weapons that benefit from Sharpness +1 over Slime weaponry, such as Nether Jugulus and basically every Great Sword worth using.

Second, you're acting like you don't get Sharpness +1 by substituting the Wroggi X chest. You don't get High-Grade Earplugs, which is not a problem on most monsters anyhow, and you can just use a 3 slot Hearing jewel to fix that.

Third, you're saying that using the Wroggi setup makes it harder for to gem in skills like Bombardier because of slot constraints. This is completely baseless because you don't lose any slots using Wroggi X mail, you gain two instead. Combined with being able to drop HGE for Earplugs whenever, you're essentially gaining six slots (two from Wroggi Mail X, three from Helios Helm Z, one from Helios Coil Z).

Consider the following, its true you can use a very good talisman, an complete both skills, that still 4 skills, no more, an even if you have the 3 slots remaining, it still makes no different, cause you cant gem in something else, an the mininum slots still 5, so again your only choice will be to complete the high earplugs, I can tell you this cause im always messing around with the armor generator. I have a bomb boost 4 evasion 4 tal, not that great, but even if it was a evasion 6 bomb 10, I still be unable to complete another major skill.


I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.

Final note, yes its easier to farm or is it?, wroggi is actually a very uncommon monster to hunt in g rank, nobody really hunt that, an event with your own room you probably wait alot before someone actually joins, that doesnt happen with lagi, you can find plenty of rooms with it, I recommend ivory, an by the way you will need the saphires an mantles later on, so its no really a choice, I prefer to just cut tail, carve an see if a I get something if I do then kill myself 3 times, if not just abandon, a 2 minutes quest with 1 chance of getting saphire or mantles, easily 20 to 30 chances of getting 1 over the course of an hour, now let me tell you, it is a good mix, but you still need the other mix in the long run, the aditional slot will mean more if they where 5 or 6, 3 free slots really are nothing.


Great Wroggi is hardly a challenge solo, and I'm not sure if you understand what we're talking about here. We're not talking about replacing the Helios Coil X with Wroggi X, we're talking about making Helios Coil Z instead of X and replacing the Helios Mail Z with Wroggi Mail X.

As for "you will need the Lagia Sapphires/Mantles later on;" Yes, you will, and this set allows you to use them on something more useful, like a Nether weapon. This way you're getting a more versatile set, and the amount of time spent farming Goldbeard isn't going to really change too much, as you only need one more Fur (Mail Z needs 4 Fur, Coil Z needs 5).
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#16_OZ_Posted 2/13/2014 10:49:59 PM
zerekriel, I know what your trying to say, so let me explain it to you, the reason I say sharpness+1 make it a weapon of choice is cause is to easy to upgrade the slime weapons early on, an as such it outpowers all weapons you can get at the moment (which is the whole reason to farm g ceadus in te first place).

I not acting as if the set didnt gives you sharpness+1, what im saying is that it isnt more versatile, both set has the same limitations, having 3 more slots to work doesnt help, the wroggi variation has a total of 10 slots, the helioz mix has 7, I know how 3 slots means alot for people, but being real, it doesnt matter unless you have 5 more slots to work with.

I already say the set is good but in the end im not saying it isnt better or anything, im saying theyre both the same, if you try to gem skills you'll find out that they have the same limitations, thats the whole point, so farm using the saphires on the waist is pretty much a necesity an inversion, you eventually use that waist for mixed sets with both awaken an handicraft, with the possibility of completing skills like partbraker or earplugs.
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#17SGRMPosted 2/14/2014 12:19:43 AM
The Wroggi set is better cause then you have a cape.
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#18Qwerty1961Posted 2/14/2014 1:47:45 AM
I used your set as my early GRank set.

Unfortunately I spent ages farming for Lagi saphires, but I then obtained a Brachy Pallium from my 1st G-rank Brachy tail to make the Pyro Demolisher. My best bombardier talisman was a +9 Bomb Boost, +4 Hearing. Not wanting to waste the points in Hearing, I found the "Poncho Anubis" armour.
#19Farlaff(Topic Creator)Posted 2/14/2014 2:25:18 AM
Qwerty1961 posted...
I used your set as my early GRank set.

Unfortunately I spent ages farming for Lagi saphires, but I then obtained a Brachy Pallium from my 1st G-rank Brachy tail to make the Pyro Demolisher. My best bombardier talisman was a +9 Bomb Boost, +4 Hearing. Not wanting to waste the points in Hearing, I found the "Poncho Anubis" armour.


"Poncho Anubis" is a funny name, lol. It DOES look like that. And the cape gives it a nice twist for going along with the Z waist details.

But on a side note, I cannot brag about pioneering? :( Just kidding, I really don't care about that and am just glad to help fellow hunters out. Also, my best Tali so far (one I think I'll have a hard time to let go in the future) has also +4 hearing, making for almost natural HGE in my case.
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#20UlNinPosted 2/14/2014 3:27:03 AM
AxelPoe posted...
Let me say this in another way.
This mix sets are only to avoid the farming of rare stuff right?
I made the full set and see no difference between them.


You don't mean full Helios Z, do you? That comes with Blunt Edge. I assume you mean ZZZXZ which people use to avoid Blunt Edge. That's the real reason people use mixed sets - to mix of skill points and slots in order to come up with something different and hopefully better.

But let's see if I understand your point:
You are saying that you don't care about farming so the set has no advantage to you. Is that correct? Well that's great for you, but would you concede that others might find value in an easier to achieve set? Would you accept the notion that getting the exact same set but with less work might help some players?

Further, HGE is only required on a fraction of monsters. If you are up against a Lagi or a Rath or Zinogre, only regular Earplugs are needed. TC's set allows you to trade down HGE to regular plugs and get a three slot decoration spot in return. ZZZXZ cannot do that.
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