Hands down, what was THE most critical war to win for the 3 kingdoms?
In your opinion of course. I still maintain that the most important war has and always will be Chi Bi. It was the main turning point for everything. At that point, Shu wasn't even established as a formidable power, and Wu was budding but not quite to the level of Wei. Wei had everything to lose if they lost, and everything to gain if they won. Them losing was ultimately where Wei had failed.
What do you think? My friend says Fan castle due to all the massive chain of events that happen due to Guan yu's stubborness.
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I would agree.
Chi Bi is huge as far as its importance to the era and the balance of power. Fan Castle is also really up there. After Fan Castle, it was all downhill for Shu and Wu. Wu screwed Shu and themselves by killing Guan Yu (and trying to frame Wei for it) which led to the Wu-Shu alliance being destroyed.
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Chibi was the critical war that kept Wei from dominating everyone. Then afterwards, Fan Castle and particularly Lu Meng's seizure of Jingzhou during it was the critical decision that ensured Wei would never be defeated by outside forces. Both were important, but without Chibi there is no Fan Castle, so it has to get the nod.
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I agree that Chibi gets the vote for the main vote for importance, because all of the subsequent major battles and wars and victories and losses would never have happened if Wu and the Shu forces had not won that battle. Of course Fan Castle afterwards was very relevant, but even then things still were still within management range. I think after that comes the point when Jiang Wei gets Xiahou Ba killed while dismantling Shu's previously amazing defenses to just let Wei/Jin invade and ultimately get conquered.
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Dropping Liu Chan on his head.
Shu could have won if they only dropped him harder.
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What's this bizarre business with confusing "battle" and "war" ?
Hu Lao gate. If the Alliance had been decimated there, China would have been ruled by Dong Zhuo.
And that would have kept going until he died or was killed, leaving an enormous power vacuum. It's possible this would have lead to the Sima family's eventual rise to power, but it's extremely unlikely.
Even then, the Yellow Turban rebellion. If that had been successful, who knows what the geo-political landscape of China would have turned in to.
Chibi gets my vote.
Lord Blade posted...
Dropping Liu Chan on his head.
Doesn't change the fact that Zhuge Liang was the one babysiting Shu through pretty much 75% of the story. Without someone capable enough to replace him after Wuzhang, Shu would've fell regardless, Liu Shan just makes it quicker.
defo chibi. without that wei would unit china faster
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I'm going to have to go against the grain here and say Guan Du.
Cao Cao's victory in the north led to him becoming an insurmountable force. After that he just had too much power for any faction to ever hope to beat him. Even with his huge defeat at Chi Bi, the other forces were still only able to go after the other remaining weaker warlords.
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Arrrrgh! Pandas can't talk!