Let's stop pretending exclusives are good for anyone please

#101SuigintouEVPosted 1/28/2014 8:10:10 PM(edited)
DarkZV2Beta posted...
1: They're actually quite reasonably priced.


The cheapest steam box is horrible overpriced, and the decent ones cost ~165% of a PS4

2: This isn't true at all, as game code can be optimized for multiple standards or multiplatform APIs. "console optimization" hasn't been a thing since the PS2, and the world is better for leaving it behind.


You don't honestly think this is true, do you? Even game devs will tell you that console optimization is real, except in multiplat titles. Having low level access to hardware functions gives a legitimate speed boost.

3: Anyone who would make that argument puts far too much stock in the Cell. Cell is like a single core Pentium with a bunch of overclocked CUDA cores.


There's no real way to do an apples-to-apples comparision, and with GPGPU taking over a lot of former CPU duties, we get away with it. But you're seriously selling the Cell's architecture short if you think it was ever anything like a Pentium.

4: GeForce Experience solves that if you honestly have that problem. Not that it should take more than 10 minutes to fully configure your game to your own preference.


Lol geforce experience. You think either Nvidia or the game devs tested anywhere near as strenuously as a PC end-user or a console game dev?

All of the best games last generation were multiplatform.


Funny, i'm looking at my game shelf and here's what I see when I look for "the best games last gen"

Xenoblade (exclusive)
Last Story (exclusive)
Skyward Sword (exclusive)
Super Mario Galaxy (exclusive)
Bayonetta (multiplat, but.........given how botched the PS3 version was.....)
Uncharted 2 (exclusive)
The Last of Us (exclusive)
Nier (multiplat, and the frame-rate was pretty terrible)
Tales of Vesperia (multiplat, though the PS3 version is the far superior version that we didn't get)
Ni no Kuni (exclusive)
MGR: Revengeance (multiplat)
Vanquish (multiplat)
Okami HD (exclusive)
Zone of the Enders HD (multiplat, but the PS3 version needed patches and stuff because they didn't even test the framerates before releasing)
Shadow of the Collosus HD (exclusive)
Disgaea 4 (exclusive)
Disgaea 3
Disgaea D2
Valkyria Chronicles (exclusive)
MGS4 (exclusive)
Catherine (multiplat)
BlazBlue (multiplat)
Gran Turismo 6 (exclusive)
Eternal Sonata (multiplat, but the PS3 version was a full-on director's cut)
Ninja Gaiden Sigma (sort of multiplat)
Deus Ex: Human Revolution (multiplat)

Most of the multiplat other titles on the shelf - are the not-real-games type stuff i.e. FIFA or Rockband. I have no interest in boring sandbox games for the record.
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#102DarkZV2BetaPosted 1/28/2014 9:13:56 PM
SuigintouEV posted...
DarkZV2Beta posted...
1: They're actually quite reasonably priced.


The cheapest steam box is horrible overpriced, and the decent ones cost ~165% of a PS4


You don't honestly think this is true, do you? Even game devs will tell you that console optimization is real, except in multiplat titles. Having low level access to hardware functions gives a legitimate speed boost.

3: Anyone who would make that argument puts far too much stock in the Cell. Cell is like a single core Pentium with a bunch of overclocked CUDA cores.


There's no real way to do an apples-to-apples comparision, and with GPGPU taking over a lot of former CPU duties, we get away with it. But you're seriously selling the Cell's architecture short if you think it was ever anything like a Pentium.

4: GeForce Experience solves that if you honestly have that problem. Not that it should take more than 10 minutes to fully configure your game to your own preference.


Lol geforce experience. You think either Nvidia or the game devs tested anywhere near as strenuously as a PC end-user or a console game dev?

All of the best games last generation were multiplatform.


Funny, i'm looking at my game shelf and here's what I see when I look for "the best games last gen"

Xenoblade (exclusive)
Last Story (exclusive)
Skyward Sword (exclusive)
Super Mario Galaxy (exclusive)
Bayonetta (multiplat, but.........given how botched the PS3 version was.....)
Uncharted 2 (exclusive)
The Last of Us (exclusive)
Nier (multiplat, and the frame-rate was pretty terrible)
Tales of Vesperia (multiplat, though the PS3 version is the far superior version that we didn't get)
Ni no Kuni (exclusive)
MGR: Revengeance (multiplat)
Vanquish (multiplat)
Okami HD (exclusive)
Zone of the Enders HD (multiplat, but the PS3 version needed patches and stuff because they didn't even test the framerates before releasing)
Shadow of the Collosus HD (exclusive)
Disgaea 4 (exclusive)
Disgaea 3
Disgaea D2
Valkyria Chronicles (exclusive)
MGS4 (exclusive)
Catherine (multiplat)
BlazBlue (multiplat)
Gran Turismo 6 (exclusive)
Eternal Sonata (multiplat, but the PS3 version was a full-on director's cut)
Ninja Gaiden Sigma (sort of multiplat)
Deus Ex: Human Revolution (multiplat)

Most of the multiplat other titles on the shelf - are the not-real-games type stuff i.e. FIFA or Rockband. I have no interest in boring sandbox games for the record.


The only steamboxes I've seen are quite reasonably priced. Moreso than PS4, and far moreso than Xbone.
Actually, most competent devs will tell you that console optimization involves stripping out the middleware you get with PC, and works just fine for multiplatform games. The kind of low level programming you're talking about hasn't been a thing since PS2 because it takes far too much time and work for far too little return.
Actually, I think I'd be selling the pentium short in this case. Cell is a pretty low-end part. It was just ahead of it's time with the implementation of stream processing cores.
It's there if you need it. And actually? Yes. Took them some several years to collect enough data for a beta release.
Your taste in games is niche, and therefore not relevant.
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god invented extension cords. -elchris79
#103DarkZV2BetaPosted 1/28/2014 9:17:53 PM
SuigintouEV posted...
Yuji_Ikaido posted...
To further address how much better it would be without exclusive deals, think about televisions. Do you honestly believe we would have a a better and more competitive market if televisions were able to strike exclusive deals over what they could display?

What if from now on, only Sony televisions could play content from a Playstation? What if Microsoft then struck a deal with Samsung so that only their televisions could work with an Xbox? Oh but wait, there's more. Now Panasonic struck a deal with cable companies so that cable shows can only be displayed by Panasonic televisions. So if you wanted to watch cable, play Uncharted and play gears of war, you would need to have 3 separate televisions in your living room, spend three times as much money as you would have to all essentially for what is the same product?


That WOULD be a better market. You might be trying to make a sound-seeming argument here, but the truth is that people don't even appreciate quality. They only appreciate incentives, and most of the time that incentive is just "which TV is cheapest". That's why Pioneer, and now Panasonic have now exited the plasma TV market despite being the absolute top-of-class in televisions - because people can think they get what they assume to be the same experience from a $500 vizio from walmart and it all plays the same content.

Quality is dying in the consumer electronics world. If gaming systems were so varied like that, everyone would be gaming on the worst PCs possible - oh wait, World of Warcraft / Minecraft types already do that and the mobile market is heading that way too with game quality being terrible.

Before microsoft brought Xbox360 into the picture, there was never a question of unreliable consoles. PS2, Gamecube, N64, PSX, SNES... all of mine still work. They were never the most powerful cutting edge consoles VS PC - none of those systems even has a FAN. Can you imagine last gen without fans? The fact is that people have stopped EXPECTING quality workmanship and reliability. Exclusives are the last bastion for video games on that front.


Fun fact: 50% of the first batch of PS2s were DOA at the factory, 50% of the working units died before getting to customers, and I'd wager a much larger percent of the remaining launch units died under normal use.
Another fun fact: PS1 had the highest failure rate of any successful console to that point. On the other hand, Xbox failure rate was quite low.

PS3 was Sony's first semi-reliable console, and it was less because it was all that good, and more because it was being compared to 360, which had a critical design flaw in the initial units causing them to inevitably fail under normal use.

Nintendo is the only company still making hardware with a good track record. Sony's is one of the worst out there.
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god invented extension cords. -elchris79
#104aray48Posted 1/28/2014 9:20:43 PM
Exclusives are great for gamers. It drives competition and makes each side need to produce more quality stuff in order to succeed. Deal with it brah.
#105UniversquallPosted 1/28/2014 9:25:26 PM
SuigintouEV posted...
Funny, i'm looking at my game shelf and here's what I see when I look for "the best games last gen"

Xenoblade (exclusive)
Last Story (exclusive)
Skyward Sword (exclusive)
Super Mario Galaxy (exclusive)
Bayonetta (multiplat, but.........given how botched the PS3 version was.....)
Uncharted 2 (exclusive)
The Last of Us (exclusive)
Nier (multiplat, and the frame-rate was pretty terrible)
Tales of Vesperia (multiplat, though the PS3 version is the far superior version that we didn't get)
Ni no Kuni (exclusive)
MGR: Revengeance (multiplat)
Vanquish (multiplat)
Okami HD (exclusive)
Zone of the Enders HD (multiplat, but the PS3 version needed patches and stuff because they didn't even test the framerates before releasing)
Shadow of the Collosus HD (exclusive)
Disgaea 4 (exclusive)
Disgaea 3
Disgaea D2
Valkyria Chronicles (exclusive)
MGS4 (exclusive)
Catherine (multiplat)
BlazBlue (multiplat)
Gran Turismo 6 (exclusive)
Eternal Sonata (multiplat, but the PS3 version was a full-on director's cut)
Ninja Gaiden Sigma (sort of multiplat)
Deus Ex: Human Revolution (multiplat)

Most of the multiplat other titles on the shelf - are the not-real-games type stuff i.e. FIFA or Rockband. I have no interest in boring sandbox games for the record.


Stop mentioning games that beta trolls can't play due to how limited their options are.
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After The Fallout. Beyond Rapture. Believe In the Fireflies
#106GrimwhisperPosted 1/28/2014 11:28:53 PM
DarkZV2Beta posted...
SuigintouEV posted...
Yuji_Ikaido posted...
Whether a title is exclusive for PS4 or Xbone, it is bad news for gamers. How does this help you in any way shape or form? It doesn't. It only hurts people that like a certain game. It's time to stop supporting the idea of exclusives even if they're in your favor.

A title being exclusive is always bad news.


disagree.

Titles being exclusive are good news - they're optimized, and they're made for system owners that actually want them - whether that's Last of Us or Ni no Kuni or Xenoblade. Titles being multiplat allow crappy systems like Xbox / Xbox 360 / Xbox One to hang around because the lowest common denominator doesn't really put much thought into their purchases beyond brand name recognition.


Except that both mainstream game consoles use the exact same architecture. There's nothing to "optimize". In fact, there hasn't been for a generation now.
Also, fun fact: 360 actually had more unique hardware features and better balanced architecture than PS3, and the original Xbox was by far the most powerful console of it's generation. PS2 was the console holding everything back.


You sounded alright until the piece about PS2 holding everything back. You're aware that it is one of the most successful consoles of your lifetime, right?
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PSN is the same as my username. Is The Last Guardian out yet?