Another Mature Discussion: Cloud Gaming/Computing

#1FaytalChaosPosted 9/5/2013 9:10:05 AM
The last Mature Discussion topic I created turned out to be incredible. Everyone was respectful towards one another for the most part and fanboyism was kept to a minimal and on top of all that I learned alot. So I want to try it again with another subject. The idea of Cloud Gaming/Computing.

First off all lets get somethings out of the way. First is that Cloud Gaming/Computing is NOT limited to just the X1. Sony is fully capable of going into this field but as we can only guess it would take an enormous investment to establish enough servers. My personal understanding is that Microsoft already had the servers around which means they already had the foundation for the idea. Also I don't believe Gankai will be capable of doing this seeing as it's sort of a streaming service or so that is what they have shown it as to my knowledge.

Now as we already know the PS4's GPU has been shown to be quite a bit more powerful than the X1's. I wish I could find the article but I do believe it was Digital Foundry that conducted a test. Since they didn't have the exact specs available of the PS4 and X1 they tried to get relatively close with the GPU of the "PS4" rig having a better GPU around 50% better and running GDDR5. As opposed to the "X1" rig running DDR3. What this difference translated to was a better framerate average on the PS4 than the X1. The highest difference between the two being around a 30% improvement while the least only being around 10-15%.

Now this is where I would love to hear some input and opinions. How could the Cloud impact this difference if at all? Before you go and say that it isn't possible there are already videos up of other companies using the cloud for different graphical reasons. Whether it was lighting or rendering it seemed to be very possible. Now please don't misunderstand me; The cloud isn't some magical phenomenon that is able to do stuff that that the hardware isnt capable of when it comes to simple stuff like rendering and the lighting. It only seems like it is just taking some load off of the hardware. The "magical" features that are being boasted about it have always been around just branded as being only possible with the cloud. For example The Drivatar from Forza 5 really isnt all that special. Just saving your driving habits to a server so other people can race an artificial you. You know what also does that? Mybrute.com, its rather simplistic but same thing.

Here are some videos of the cloud helping with rendering and lighting in a gaming environment

This first video shows how latency can affect lighting in the cloud environment. i personally thought it was incredible that it was able to look that well up to 200ms Latency. 500ms you could DEFINITELY see how the lag was affecting the lighting. I started the video at the appropiate time to see this in action

http://youtu.be/aiWdJxshWMM?t=3m21s

This next video shows rendering that can be made with the cloud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYUOUMy-VDo

Now one of the big factors would be if the developers even utilize the use of the cloud. Whether it cost the developers or not still hasnt been 100% verified. With all this being said do you believe that the cloud computing could even up the GPU inferiority that the X1 is experiencing? To me it really depends on how much the cloud can actually do. Which we wont know till its utilized. To be honest, I also don't believe that the PS4 NEEDS cloud computing. On paper it is the more powerful hardware. The reason I say it's not needed is b/c I don't think that cloud computing would make so much of a difference that the X1 would be leagues better, rather it would only just even the playing field. Again that's only if it is utilized by the devs.

Any thoughts? Opinions on the matter? Would love to hear them!
#2regsantotomasPosted 9/5/2013 9:15:35 AM
At the end of the day, it boils down to how the developers utilize (or not) these technologies.

I think beyond the PR spin, the technology itself is real but its actual impact and any improvement in real world application remains to be seen.

Off-loading to servers isn't anything new but how each developer implements this into their game is going to ultimately determine its viability and relativity.
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the bitter truth is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. ~ Anton Ego
#3FaytalChaos(Topic Creator)Posted 9/5/2013 9:19:47 AM
regsantotomas posted...
At the end of the day, it boils down to how the developers utilize (or not) these technologies.

I think beyond the PR spin, the technology itself is real but its actual impact and any improvement in real world application remains to be seen.

Off-loading to servers isn't anything new but how each developer implements this into their game is going to ultimately determine its viability and relativity.


Which is absolutely true. The technology of the cloud is only good if the Devs use it. The potential of it remains to be seen. I'm also incredibly curious if it REALLY is free for the devs (which I slightly doubt) or if it cost a small/large fee.
#482xenoPosted 9/5/2013 9:21:50 AM
Latency will be the issue in everything cloud computing, bottom line. When you know what the processes are in a PC already, you kinda know the issues with "cloud processing" overall. And it's pretty obvious that it won't be handling many real time graphics and physics processes at all.

NPC's in games like Skyrim?

That is probably more reasonable. But it brings back to the other question...why not just make an MMO in that case?
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Shwing
#5regsantotomasPosted 9/5/2013 9:25:11 AM
FaytalChaos posted...


Which is absolutely true. The technology of the cloud is only good if the Devs use it. The potential of it remains to be seen. I'm also incredibly curious if it REALLY is free for the devs (which I slightly doubt) or if it cost a small/large fee.


That's a fair point. I can definitely see exclusives trying to take advantage of Microsoft's variant on the Xbox One but are multiplatform developers in the same mind set?

Hard to say.

And yeah, I really have no idea whether this is available for every developer at no cost. You would think that that would be the case otherwise it is just another hurdle to overcome.
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the bitter truth is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. ~ Anton Ego
#6Laylow12Posted 9/5/2013 9:29:50 AM
Sony has announced they have "The Cloud" too.

Also, it's no big deal since latency ruins any cloud based calculations. Read for yourself:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

.
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The Queen of Light took her bow, and then she turned to go.
The Prince of Peace embraced the gloom, and walked the night alone.-Battle of Evermore/Zeppelin
#7GondolinRisesPosted 9/5/2013 9:34:11 AM
At some point your console has to process the data and send it to your TV. So graphically cloud computing won't help. With real world persistence or open world computations that occur off screen being the only practical application for having a server take on some of the load, I don't see this tech being used a lot. However when it will be used it will be awesome because off screen simulations have been a major drawback for a lot of games in past gens.
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Can't keep a good man down. More Fe + C than you.
#8regsantotomasPosted 9/5/2013 9:42:15 AM
I think latency CAN be an issue if the implementation relies on computing on the cloud that is in the immediacy of the experience.

From the tech talk that I heard about the technology, it will be more applicable for offloading computations that are non-integral to the immediate experience.
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the bitter truth is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. ~ Anton Ego
#9GondolinRisesPosted 9/5/2013 9:48:52 AM
regsantotomas posted...
I think latency CAN be an issue if the implementation relies on computing on the cloud that is in the immediacy of the experience.

From the tech talk that I heard about the technology, it will be more applicable for offloading computations that are non-integral to the immediate experience.


Essentially what I just said =p
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Can't keep a good man down. More Fe + C than you.
#10regsantotomasPosted 9/5/2013 9:49:51 AM
GondolinRises posted...
regsantotomas posted...
I think latency CAN be an issue if the implementation relies on computing on the cloud that is in the immediacy of the experience.

From the tech talk that I heard about the technology, it will be more applicable for offloading computations that are non-integral to the immediate experience.


Essentially what I just said =p


What. You don't enjoy the reaffirmation? :)
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the bitter truth is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. ~ Anton Ego