microsoft built the thing with advertising as #1 priority.........NUads is here!

#111SoulTrapperPosted 9/11/2013 9:39:00 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...

Thats up to you. You guys are blowing this into something its not. Fact is, you already release this information when you use a dozen other mundane mediums. They've already told you this happens so you can choose not to use this product. You think the government can't collect that kind of data about people in a billion different ways?


How are we blowing this into something it's not?

It's an HD infrared camera that records everything fro you skype calls to how you watch commercials and sends this data to MS servers.

How exactly am I releasing HD footage of my living room already?

That's what this topic is about: telling people that they are giving away private info and footage of their living room to MS.
This gives people a chance to find out and not use the kinect or possibly even not support a company that would do this sort of stuff.

Sure they can, just no reason to give them another, easier way of collecting it.

As for working with the government, no one can refuse them. Thats just how the US works. If Sony was asked to submit anything to the NSA they cannot refuse. It sounds like you need to move to another country.


Sony isn't an American company, they don't have to give anything to the NSA.
I understand that they had no choice, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to store all this data in the first place.
The only reason the NSA can collect this data is because MS is collecting it.

Also, you can choose to use an Xbox and simply not use skype or Kinect. In fact, there is a rumour that you will be able to use Kinect and choose not to have these things shared as an option.


correct, but you'd still be supporting a company that submits other (unaware) people to this sort of data mining.
I heard that rumor as well, I haven't seen how exactly it will work and what data won't be shared.
I have, however, read the EULA, which you have to agree to before you can use the xbox and by agreeing to that, you already agree to let MS collect your private info.
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#112DesperateMonkeyPosted 9/11/2013 10:39:03 AM
1)Where is the link saying MS is recording live HD footage of you when you play? Everything points to generalized data such as when you are looking at a commercial or not. Not only is this ridiculous because MS has no one to actually go through all this footage, it would also be extremely noticeable to consumers who would basically be uploading footage all day long....... Even if you don't have a bandwidth limit (which many people do), its still going to slow down everything.

It sounds like you are making up stuff now. If the government is interested in seeing into your room, they WILL do it and certainly don't need MS for this.

2)Sony cannot refuse the NSA simply because they are a Japanese company. This is a silly argument. Can you come to the US as a Japanese company and completely skip American tax laws? Sony in the US is Sony of America. As long as they want to operate in America, they need to abide by American laws.

3)Again, your argument boils down to basic data collection. You can now go ahead and avoid Facebook, Windows, a dozen messaging services, any other form of social media network and preferably avoid using phones, webcams and going outside since there is satellite footage of you.

You make it sound ridiculous that most people don't care if MS knows when you are looking at a commercial or not or how many times you repeat the name of certain products with negative or positive tones. Its a capitalist market and people choose to accept or reject whatever they want. Since this is a big issue for you, you should just disconnect Kinect or not buy an Xbox. Problem solved.

But don't try to sell us on how your sensitivities should be universal and don't even bother making it out to be like this is something new. There is no HD footage uploading the MS. They are also fighting the government to allow them to show what information is actually being shared which would indicate that its nothing more than generalized statistical information.
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#113axelfooley2k5(Topic Creator)Posted 9/11/2013 12:15:28 PM
DesperateMonkey posted...
1)Where is the link saying MS is recording live HD footage of you when you play? Everything points to generalized data such as when you are looking at a commercial or not. Not only is this ridiculous because MS has no one to actually go through all this footage, it would also be extremely noticeable to consumers who would basically be uploading footage all day long....... Even if you don't have a bandwidth limit (which many people do), its still going to slow down everything.

It sounds like you are making up stuff now. If the government is interested in seeing into your room, they WILL do it and certainly don't need MS for this.

2)Sony cannot refuse the NSA simply because they are a Japanese company. This is a silly argument. Can you come to the US as a Japanese company and completely skip American tax laws? Sony in the US is Sony of America. As long as they want to operate in America, they need to abide by American laws.

3)Again, your argument boils down to basic data collection. You can now go ahead and avoid Facebook, Windows, a dozen messaging services, any other form of social media network and preferably avoid using phones, webcams and going outside since there is satellite footage of you.

You make it sound ridiculous that most people don't care if MS knows when you are looking at a commercial or not or how many times you repeat the name of certain products with negative or positive tones. Its a capitalist market and people choose to accept or reject whatever they want. Since this is a big issue for you, you should just disconnect Kinect or not buy an Xbox. Problem solved.

But don't try to sell us on how your sensitivities should be universal and don't even bother making it out to be like this is something new. There is no HD footage uploading the MS. They are also fighting the government to allow them to show what information is actually being shared which would indicate that its nothing more than generalized statistical information.


Just admit you have an agenda ..... desperate
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#114SoulTrapperPosted 9/11/2013 12:27:09 PM(edited)
DesperateMonkey posted...
1)Where is the link saying MS is recording live HD footage of you when you play? Everything points to generalized data such as when you are looking at a commercial or not. Not only is this ridiculous because MS has no one to actually go through all this footage, it would also be extremely noticeable to consumers who would basically be uploading footage all day long....... Even if you don't have a bandwidth limit (which many people do), its still going to slow down everything.

It sounds like you are making up stuff now. If the government is interested in seeing into your room, they WILL do it and certainly don't need MS for this.


Unfortunately, I deleted all my bookmarks regarding the kinect after they made it non-mandatory, so I don't have all of my links remaining, but I'll fish up the ones I can find:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/livetou

2.3. What does Microsoft do with my content? You understand that Microsoft may need, and you hereby grant to Microsoft and its affiliates, resellers, distributors, service providers, partners, and/or suppliers the right, to use, modify, adapt, reproduce, distribute, publish and display content posted on the Services. These include your name, gamertag, motto, avatar, or other information you supply in connection with the content.

Personal information collected by Microsoft may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country or region in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries, or service providers maintain facilities. You consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country or region.

If you use the Xbox console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console and the Services to improve Microsoft products and services.


There was another one in which it stated specifically that all your data would be stored on the cloud servers and made unidentifiable if it was selected for processing.

You seem to have forgotten that the xbox was originally only intended for people with large bandwidth and seem to be unaware of what data compression is.
They can store hours of footage in a file no larger than a few megabytes.

There is no need for a person to go through the footage, computers are more than capable of doing all of this on their own.
From facial recognition to recognizing what brand of shirt you wear, you don't need a person to do this.

Even if they won't do it, they can.
It's completely possible.

You've yet to give me a good reason as to why I would let MS collect all of this data outside of getting slightly less annoyed about ads.
#115SoulTrapperPosted 9/11/2013 12:27:14 PM(edited)
2)Sony cannot refuse the NSA simply because they are a Japanese company. This is a silly argument. Can you come to the US as a Japanese company and completely skip American tax laws? Sony in the US is Sony of America. As long as they want to operate in America, they need to abide by American laws.


Of course it can: if the servers are not in the US, the NSA can't do anything and Sony doesn't have to comply with any requests for data.
There's a reason why sony wasn't mentioned anywhere in the leaked NSA files.


3)Again, your argument boils down to basic data collection. You can now go ahead and avoid Facebook, Windows, a dozen messaging services, any other form of social media network and preferably avoid using phones, webcams and going outside since there is satellite footage of you.


I don't use facebook, my PC has a separate partition for windows I usually use Linux,etc.

Again, just because I get punched in the jaw doesn't mean I'm okay with getting kicked in the nuts.
Because I'm already being tracked on pretty much everything is not a valid reason to place a camera in my living room.


You make it sound ridiculous that most people don't care if MS knows when you are looking at a commercial or not or how many times you repeat the name of certain products with negative or positive tones. Its a capitalist market and people choose to accept or reject whatever they want. Since this is a big issue for you, you should just disconnect Kinect or not buy an Xbox. Problem solved.


Exactly, I'm not buying one.

It is ridiculous, because there is no good reason to let them collect this data.
The only advantage is that you might get slightly less annoying ads.
Ads that no one wants in the first place.

I think it's ridiculous that people would allow a camera in their living room just for that reason.

But don't try to sell us on how your sensitivities should be universal and don't even bother making it out to be like this is something new. There is no HD footage uploading the MS. They are also fighting the government to allow them to show what information is actually being shared which would indicate that its nothing more than generalized statistical information.


They should be universal, because there is no good reason to allow it.

Give me one reason as to why I should allow a private company to collect personal data on me gathered by listening in on my phone conversations and by watching me react to commercials, video games and TV shows and advertising?

To get ads that annoy me slightly less because they are supposedly about what I'm interested in?

In all your argumentation, you have yet to give a single good reason as to why people should be okay with this.

Edited for posting in the wrong order
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#116NeoMonkPosted 9/11/2013 12:35:21 PM
You know you're getting a billboard on your TV

You buy it

Can't complain

It's really that black and white.
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#117Mr_arizonaPosted 9/11/2013 2:58:54 PM
I say everyone who buys a Xbox One should just say Eggo Waffles every hour and let's see if suddenly Microsoft has a partnership with Eggos soon after. LOL
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#118DesperateMonkeyPosted 9/11/2013 3:40:10 PM(edited)
@SoulTrapper

Your arguments are shallow as hell and modify the terms by saying "why should I etc,etc". No one cares why YOU should do something. The problem is YOU trying to tell what other people should do or feel.

You link an article that supposedly proves HD footage is being recorded and sent to MS. But the article itself says nothing but generalized data is being collected.

You say why should people pay to have a camera that JUST spies on you for the trade off of better ads. Is this one of those FB posts about how Kinect is useless to everyone and that all its features and completely worthless, even compared to directed???

You keep repeating why you should buy an Xbox. No one cares why you should and you should know the reasons yourself. Them trying to make more money on advertising the part of the deal. They give us hardware for extremely low costs, secure exclusives and provide us with expensive services. In return, we pay them a low price, we accept some advertisements when we go to the marketplace and whatever data collection terms that is written out, which obviously does not include live HD footage of you and your family and is yet to be proven otherwise. Not only did they say they were only collecting general data, its extremely easy to track down whether they are taking live footage. If they do this without explicit permissions then they are in for an even bigger loss (via lawsuits) than the RROD problems.

MS do this for the bottom line. Being caught doing this would never ever give them enough revenue to equate the damage to reputation and the lawsuits involved. That is even assuming there is profit to be made in watching everyone and trying to extract information in such an extremely nonsensical way.

You keep saying silly things like "we are paying MS to spy on us". Thats funny, people are paying for THIS? They aren't paying for the games, the hardware, the features and all those other things? This is so fallacious....
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#119RedZakuPosted 9/11/2013 3:43:40 PM
DesperateMonkey posted...
@SoulTrapper

Your arguments are shallow as hell and modify the terms by saying "why should I etc,etc". No one cares why YOU should do something. The problem is YOU trying to tell what other people should do or feel.


I will ask a question then, why is it okay for Microsoft to SPY ON MY PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS with someone just so they can target advertising to me? Let's ignore the other implications of the ability to spy on skype calls for now, and just focus on this. Why is this okay, and if this isn't okay to you, then why bother trying to defend it at all?
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#120DesperateMonkeyPosted 9/11/2013 4:37:41 PM
The real question is how is it not okay. And that answer depends on your own personal needs for privacy. I couldn't give two cents about certain keywords being automatically sorted in some database regarding my conversations. Even if someone chose to listen to random calls once in a while, I have no idea how you expect that to affect me.

Your question is essentially asking me why I am explaining to people their terrible logic. MS already tells you that this is one of the consequences of using their console. Don't like it don't buy it. No one is telling you to do otherwise.
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