microsoft built the thing with advertising as #1 priority.........NUads is here!

#131DesperateMonkeyPosted 9/12/2013 8:14:16 AM(edited)
Where did they say they weren't collecting footage? Because that's not what I read anywhere.
And you give them explicit permission by agreeing to the ToU, as I've already posted.


No, you didnt...

There is nothing to catch them with, have you read the articles? Have you read the ToU?
They're using the data gathering thing as a selling point.
They're not hiding anything
There is a ton of profit to be made, why else would they listen in your skype conversations?
Marketing is the biggest industry in human history, you're a fool if you don't see how a camera in your living room detecting how you respond to commercials etc doesn't equal a ton of money
I never said that, stop making stuff up. Answer this: why should people allow MS to record their conversations?



Wait a minute, I thought we were talking about steaming footage? Now its about whether you are looking at commercials again? Looks like you are not certain of your point at all. The TOU also does not protect people like this at all, especially from backlash. You claim they market this but all they've marketed is that Kinect will collect GENERALIZED DATA while you pretend that equates to your argument of live footage. You are flip flopping right now.

Simple, because you don't care. I do not know how you've missed this a thousand times...

You completely ignore how I've already told you that people allow far more personal information to fly into public domain by using social networks.

Again, you completely try to dictate other peoples sensitivities while saying you aren't...


@RedZaku
Well no, it isn't....See what MS is doing is the text book definition of Invasion of Privacy... it's not modified, I just said you can ignore the part about it being lawsuit worthy because buried somewhere in the EULA you will have to sign this right over. Which is in and of itself incredibly immoral, and anti-consumer...


Your posts are too long for me to read if you begin with repeating the same fallacy...

Do you know what modified means? It means you altered it... Saying "Its a text book case, EXCEPT the second half" is just a terrible way to start. You are completely contradicting yourself just to make an argument.

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#132ImThe8thWonderPosted 9/12/2013 8:30:05 AM
ITT: "You're going to take Microsoft's ads and other money-grabbing policies, and you're going to like it!"

Damn. If I ever was a fanboy towards something, I wouldn't be dumb enough to defend my side even while they casually dump on me.
#133SoulTrapperPosted 9/12/2013 8:36:48 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...

No, you didnt...


http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/livetou

2.3. What does Microsoft do with my content? You understand that Microsoft may need, and you hereby grant to Microsoft and its affiliates, resellers, distributors, service providers, partners, and/or suppliers the right, to use, modify, adapt, reproduce, distribute, publish and display content posted on the Services. These include your name, gamertag, motto, avatar, or other information you supply in connection with the content.

Personal information collected by Microsoft may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country or region in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries, or service providers maintain facilities. You consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country or region.

If you use the Xbox console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console and the Services to improve Microsoft products and services.



Wait a minute, I thought we were talking about steaming footage? Now its about whether you are looking at commercials again? Looks like you are not certain of your point at all. The TOU also does not protect people like this at all, especially from backlash. You claim they market this but all they've marketed is that Kinect will collect GENERALIZED DATA while you pretend that equates to your argument of live footage. You are flip flopping right now.


It's both: the info they can collect is both footage and general data.
I'm very certain of my point: the ToU allows Microsoft to collect anything the kinect records. From live footage to general data.

My point has been pretty straight forward: I don't like the idea of Microsoft listening in on my phone conversations and using kinect recordings for any purpose whatsoever.

What backlash? There hardly was any backlash about the NSA thing, there was hardly any backlash about the skype recordings, there is no backlash at all about the NSA sharing all their info about American citizens with Israel:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents?CMP=ema_follow

Can you tell me the last time a company went under due to something like this?
It doesn't happen.


Simple, because you don't care. I do not know how you've missed this a thousand times...

You completely ignore how I've already told you that people allow far more personal information to fly into public domain by using social networks.

Again, you completely try to dictate other peoples sensitivities while saying you aren't...


Again, I'm not ignoring that at all, it's simply not true.

An HD camera in your living room can collect a lot more than what a facebook profile contains, since it can even detect your heart rate and bloodflow.
That info is worth much more than a simple "like" on facebook.

Or are you honestly trying to argue that people post their heart rates and reactions to everything they watch on facebook or twitter?

I'm not dictating anyone on what to think about it, just making sure people know what they're getting into.


And again you fail to answer: why should people be okay with this?
What's in it for the consumer?
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#134RebelGameMasterPosted 9/12/2013 8:39:59 AM
This sounds like a bunch of Sony Ponies reassuring themselves.

Xbox cares about their customers.

The government cares about us, and our lives.

Teachers want all the kids in their classes to succeed.

There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Things like this link:

http://youtu.be/cphkD-9NUe8

Are a fluke.

Enough with your tinfoil hats people!
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:)
#135SoulTrapperPosted 9/12/2013 8:55:09 AM(edited)
DesperateMonkey posted...

Please, your stance barely allows for differing opinions at all. Its only ok in the sense that people who think its ok are Xbots or idiots in your mind.


What differing opinion is there?
Microsoft is recording everything you do with the kinect.
That's it.

Whether you're okay with that or not is up to you.


So basically it doesn't say this and neither does your quote.


The ToU allows them to do it.
It's simple as that.

They've already done it with Skype, why wouldn't they do it with other things?


I already answered this MULTIPLE times. Its a cost of using the Xbox.


That's not a good reason at all.
There are cheaper devices that offer pretty much the same and don't record all of this.



And I asked you why people are ok with ANY negative policies. Its a trade off to the enjoyment you get from purchasing the console. I have no idea why you can't understand this simple concept.


Clearly they're not okay with negative policies. Just look back at the last 6 months and you'll clearly see that people weren't okay with pretty much anything Microsoft tried to do.

I don't understand it because it's a ridiculous reason.

That's like saying you're okay with getting kicked in the nuts everytime you eat an icecream at a certain place because it's part of their policy.
Meanwhile you can eat the same icecream at a different place and not get kicked in the nuts.


See this is fanboyism again. Xbox has a lot more advantages to tons of people than a simple graphics boost. Some people want cheaper and better graphics. Others want dedicated servers, family share, multi tasking, the premier online service, Cloud and whatever exclusives MS is offering with their $1 billion dollars. Sony offers much less in most departments.


It's not fanboyism at all, it's simple facts.

You claimed xbox was cheap for what if offered, it's not.

Dedicated servers have been around for pretty much every ps3 exclusive, this isn't new.
Family share isn't happening (yet).
Multitasking? What do you mean?

That's all purely opinion based, it's worth that to you.

Objectively, the console is worth less and costs more if you don't include the kinect, which costs around $143.
But of course if you don't want it, you still have to pay for it and get a $143 paperweight.
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#136DesperateMonkeyPosted 9/12/2013 9:03:28 AM
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/livetou

2.3. What does Microsoft do with my content? You understand that Microsoft may need, and you hereby grant to Microsoft and its affiliates, resellers, distributors, service providers, partners, and/or suppliers the right, to use, modify, adapt, reproduce, distribute, publish and display content posted on the Services. These include your name, gamertag, motto, avatar, or other information you supply in connection with the content.


So this part clearly doesn't say it.

Personal information collected by Microsoft may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country or region in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries, or service providers maintain facilities. You consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country or region.


This is in regards to the previous content being shared, so not here either...

If you use the Xbox console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console and the Services to improve Microsoft products and services.


Completely does not say footage at all. Ways to interact is not "direct video footage of your kids playing in their underpants". In fact, all it says is that it collects data in regards to usage and MS has already announced a few of the ways that is being collected. This will not hold up in court (TOU's often don't even when they make explicit statements) and if people found out live footage was being taken then they would be in an outrage because most people would not take this statement as such a declaration.

It's both: the info they can collect is both footage and general data.
I'm very certain of my point: the ToU allows Microsoft to collect anything the kinect records. From live footage to general data.


You being certain does not make it any less made up since your quote does not say this... Live footage already goes beyond data collection in many aspects of the law. Its pretty silly even if it was in the TOU because there is no way to prevent everyone who uses it to be aware of Kinect and that would be a ton of huge privacy issues because, especially relating to potential pornographic material. Not to mention, it would be a huge PR nightmare if anyone ever found out Kinect is recording your kids.
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#137DesperateMonkeyPosted 9/12/2013 9:04:58 AM
My point has been pretty straight forward: I don't like the idea of Microsoft listening in on my phone conversations and using kinect recordings for any purpose whatsoever.

What backlash? There hardly was any backlash about the NSA thing, there was hardly any backlash about the skype recordings, there is no backlash at all about the NSA sharing all their info about American citizens with Israel:


1)There is huge backlash and its still a top news story... I have no idea where you get this idea.
2)Many people don't care so its not as bad as some people like you want it to be. The fact is, the NSA is just another trade off. Security vs privacy and again, plenty of citizens and perhaps the majority would choose security. People feel secure because not much has happened since 9/11 that we haven't seen before 9/11. But is that because the world is safer or because of programs like the NSA and strict security measures protecting Americans? You are seriously confusing your arguments now.

The Xbox is similar. Its a trade off between getting a product for cost by providing certain information for them to profit off of. That you think this makes ludicrous money is nothing but hearsay. When the Xbox One actually makes any money at all, we can perhaps START having this discussion.
Can you tell me the last time a company went under due to something like this?
It doesn't happen.


Just because MS is too big to go under does not mean they want the Xbox Division to fail and then bring bad press to the rest of the company... Did Sony go under for putting out a really expensive console not made for games? No. But they react to negativity...

Again, I'm not ignoring that at all, it's simply not true.

An HD camera in your living room can collect a lot more than what a facebook profile contains, since it can even detect your heart rate and bloodflow.
That info is worth much more than a simple "like" on facebook.


Wow, this is so ignorant, I cannot believe it. You think the only private info displayed on FB is what you like? I see people talking about what parties they go to, who they know, where they were most of their time, who they are dating, what their politics are, what their favorite color is, what they read, what they eat, when they sleep, where they live, etc. I not only learn this about THEM, I learn this about people they talk about.

Ive even had this problem since my FB page was private but other people discussed personal information about where I live and work and other personal things with a public account. Now I just make it public and make sure I don't post anything I don't want to share. But it doesn't stop others from sharing my info. Just a reality I have to live with.

Or are you honestly trying to argue that people post their heart rates and reactions to everything they watch on facebook or twitter?


Why would I argue this? MS collects information that goes to a data base to generalize this kind of information. Its far less intrusive than social networking has been... I'd rather everyone had access to my heart rate than where I live and what my son's name is.

I'm not dictating anyone on what to think about it, just making sure people know what they're getting into.

And again you fail to answer: why should people be okay with this?
What's in it for the consumer?


OMG please stop asking stupid questions that have been answered. Its not a smart form of argumentation. If you want a serious discussion, do not make people repeat things they've posted a dozen times.
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#138MetroidFan9999Posted 9/12/2013 9:06:30 AM
Skype with NuADS?!?

I'm gonna throw up. "Yeah just had some Pizza Hut man"

*ad for pizza hut shows up*

"Gee...thanks MS!"
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#139NSGraphitePosted 9/12/2013 9:31:25 AM
Thats a fail of an advertiszing campaign if it only pops up ads for stuff you already bought.

"Man that pizza hut pizza was good!"

Xbox-1: *throws up pizza hut ad*

" Yeah, i just ate that. i'm not hungry right now. xbox, watch netflix"

Xbox-1: *throws up pepsi ad*

"I hate pepsi, i like mountain dew. xbox, netflix..."

Xbox-1: *throws up mt. dew ad*

"Gawdamnit! i'm not thirsty, i wanna watch some mother fraggin burn notice! xbox, netflix!!"

Xbox-1: *throws up ad for burn notice, on USA channel fridays at 8*

"*** you! xbox, OFF!!!"

Xbox-1: :( *shuts off*

Gamer: *goes to amazon, orders ps4*

The future of XBOX...
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I don't always Troll on the internet. But when I do, I make it the Xbox-One forums...
#140RedZakuPosted 9/12/2013 10:18:25 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...
Your posts are too long for me to read if you begin with repeating the same fallacy...

Do you know what modified means? It means you altered it... Saying "Its a text book case, EXCEPT the second half" is just a terrible way to start. You are completely contradicting yourself just to make an argument.


Given I'm not telling you to ignore an entire half, but rather one sentence in regards to it being something one files a lawsuit over which Microsoft will have you wave such a right in it's EULA doesn't change the fact what MS is doing is still a word for word description of Invasion of Privacy. Not to mention this isn't the same fallacy you claim I made in my last post. Actually you didn't say what the fallacy was, you just claimed it was there, and you seemed to change what fallacy it was depending on which part of the post you were replying to, again without actually naming what you claim I did wrong. And you can't go your posts are too long, when I so casually summarized all the points of the argument in a numbered bulletin point system at the very end of my reply so you couldn't make the too lazy to read excuse.



In other words your entire counter is basically just admitting you have no way to actually reply to me, so you're making an excuse to back out.
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Your logic fails more than the shields of the U. S. S. Enterprise.