Cloud can improve graphics?

#31regsantotomasPosted 9/26/2013 10:06:18 AM
nonexistinghero posted...
ElPolloDiablo87 posted...
I just don't understand how people think it won't improve graphics. Any computational load you can take off of the actual Xbox console frees up resources to work on other things, which could lead to improved graphics.


Because everything about graphics in games currently is done by the console, with a direct in-game result.

If it's done on the Cloud, it's going through the internet, which means:

- Console sends assignments to Cloud
- Cloud does calculations
- Cloud sends stuff back
- Constant back & forth interaction

It just doesn't seem possible to truly improve graphics & gameplay that way. It just seems like a clumsy system no one's going to use.


I'll disagree with the notion that it can't improve game play or at least the overall experience. I will agree that it can't extend the ultimate graphical capabilities.

Remember that cloud calculations can happen both while your online or even when you aren't playing the game and that can have direct impact on the overall experience in your game.

This was well covered in the architectural discussion on May 21st.
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the bitter truth is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. ~ Anton Ego
#32nonexistingheroPosted 9/26/2013 10:21:11 AM
The Cloud can't possibly know what calculations to do if you're not playing the game. A game requires direct calculations based on what you do at that moment and what you see. If you shoot a wall with light shining against it and it blows up, it shouldn't take half a second or another second before the light is recalculated. This would only work with static, non-interactive environments, which would be detrimental to the gameplay.

Anyway, MS has still been very vague on how this works, which gives me even more reason to assume it's just bs marketing.
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#33regsantotomasPosted 9/26/2013 10:32:43 AM
nonexistinghero posted...
The Cloud can't possibly know what calculations to do if you're not playing the game. A game requires direct calculations based on what you do at that moment and what you see. If you shoot a wall with light shining against it and it blows up, it shouldn't take half a second or another second before the light is recalculated. This would only work with static, non-interactive environments, which would be detrimental to the gameplay.

Anyway, MS has still been very vague on how this works, which gives me even more reason to assume it's just bs marketing.


That isn't true.

In an open world game, as an example, lots of NPCs and events could be calculated when you are offline so that when you log back on, those events have updated accordingly.

I haven't once suggested that cloud is being used for computations that have to provide instant feedback to the user as you suggested. There are many things that can be offloaded to the cloud. Again, if you want to educate yourself, listen to the architectural discussion which delineates exactly what the technology does.

To what extent this technology is used will remain to be seen in the months and years to come but dismissing it as simply marketing is completely erroneous.
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the bitter truth is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. ~ Anton Ego
#34Ramsus082Posted 9/26/2013 10:38:43 AM
goombatommy posted...
I still find a lot of this hypothetical and strange. So what about the people who have NO broadband or at best - very crappy broadband? How well does this fare for them?



It's online-only. The games he's referring to are MMO types, where you HAVE to be online at all times. Think World of Warcraft, or Final Fantasy 14 for a more recent example.

There will not be XboxOne games that scale their performance based on your internet connection and the quality of it. That is something that has never happened, even on PCs, and certainly not console.

This is exaggerated hype. Again.
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Band I'm listening to - "Song I'm listening to"
#35Ramsus082Posted 9/26/2013 10:40:09 AM
ElPolloDiablo87 posted...
I just don't understand how people think it won't improve graphics. Any computational load you can take off of the actual Xbox console frees up resources to work on other things, which could lead to improved graphics.



Like FFXIV, right? Yeah, that's been happening for a while now. What the implication is is that the cloud will be assisting non-multiplayer games with graphic processing. This will not be happening.
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Band I'm listening to - "Song I'm listening to"
#36nonexistingheroPosted 9/26/2013 10:58:49 AM
regsantotomas posted...
nonexistinghero posted...
The Cloud can't possibly know what calculations to do if you're not playing the game. A game requires direct calculations based on what you do at that moment and what you see. If you shoot a wall with light shining against it and it blows up, it shouldn't take half a second or another second before the light is recalculated. This would only work with static, non-interactive environments, which would be detrimental to the gameplay.

Anyway, MS has still been very vague on how this works, which gives me even more reason to assume it's just bs marketing.


That isn't true.

In an open world game, as an example, lots of NPCs and events could be calculated when you are offline so that when you log back on, those events have updated accordingly.

I haven't once suggested that cloud is being used for computations that have to provide instant feedback to the user as you suggested. There are many things that can be offloaded to the cloud. Again, if you want to educate yourself, listen to the architectural discussion which delineates exactly what the technology does.

To what extent this technology is used will remain to be seen in the months and years to come but dismissing it as simply marketing is completely erroneous.


All those things can be calculated offline juts as easily as well.
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Read the mania: http://www.fanfiction.net/~nonexistinghero
In SA2, it's Super Sonic and Hyper Shadow.
#37RayconPosted 9/26/2013 10:59:43 AM
Ramsus082 posted...
goombatommy posted...
I still find a lot of this hypothetical and strange. So what about the people who have NO broadband or at best - very crappy broadband? How well does this fare for them?



It's online-only. The games he's referring to are MMO types, where you HAVE to be online at all times. Think World of Warcraft, or Final Fantasy 14 for a more recent example.

There will not be XboxOne games that scale their performance based on your internet connection and the quality of it. That is something that has never happened, even on PCs, and certainly not console.

This is exaggerated hype. Again.


I was wondering how long it would take someone to say this... Considering it's only been said every time this discussion comes up.

_
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I must have looked a fool playing with a backwards DS, teary eyed solving a Sudoku puzzle -Lordx718
#38LICKWIDPAlNPosted 9/26/2013 11:05:50 AM
regsantotomas posted...
nonexistinghero posted...
The Cloud can't possibly know what calculations to do if you're not playing the game. A game requires direct calculations based on what you do at that moment and what you see. If you shoot a wall with light shining against it and it blows up, it shouldn't take half a second or another second before the light is recalculated. This would only work with static, non-interactive environments, which would be detrimental to the gameplay.

Anyway, MS has still been very vague on how this works, which gives me even more reason to assume it's just bs marketing.


That isn't true.

In an open world game, as an example, lots of NPCs and events could be calculated when you are offline so that when you log back on, those events have updated accordingly.

I haven't once suggested that cloud is being used for computations that have to provide instant feedback to the user as you suggested. There are many things that can be offloaded to the cloud. Again, if you want to educate yourself, listen to the architectural discussion which delineates exactly what the technology does.

To what extent this technology is used will remain to be seen in the months and years to come but dismissing it as simply marketing is completely erroneous.


But people have be explaining specific reasons as to why it is BS. I mean, people are still digging through hell and high water to figure out just the the heck MS means by the cloud.

To this day, know one knows. It's like they are purposely being vague about it because they know it smoke and mirrors. Almost like they think gamers are stupid or somethin..... <_<
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PS3 / Vita / 2600K@4.7Ghz water cooled by Corsair H80, Dual GTX580s in SLi, 8 Gigs Corsair RAM, 120Hz screen. Vsync? I don't need no Vsync!
#39regsantotomasPosted 9/26/2013 11:40:07 AM
LICKWIDPAlN posted...
But people have be explaining specific reasons as to why it is BS. I mean, people are still digging through hell and high water to figure out just the the heck MS means by the cloud.

To this day, know one knows. It's like they are purposely being vague about it because they know it smoke and mirrors. Almost like they think gamers are stupid or somethin..... <_<


Again, the information is readily available. Here is one link if you choose to watch/listen. It's at the 30 minute mark.

http://majornelson.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-architecture-panel/

People can continue to claim there isn't ANY info but simply choose not to look.

This isn't some fantasy voodoo technology. It exists and is already applied today. This is just another variant of its application.
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the bitter truth is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. ~ Anton Ego
#40DesperateMonkeyPosted 9/26/2013 12:00:26 PM
Thats a lot of nervous PS4 fans who really hope Cloud doesn't do anything...


First of all, why is one poster obsessed with Titan? Titan was used to accomplish what they wanted to do with that video and supported the feature. MS's work will not look the same but it will look better than whats possible with GPUs alone.

Secondly, it can offload a lot of graphical effects that are little affected by latency.

One of these is having your world persist when you go offline. Whether its power off or not, a world a 1000x larger than what you would normally be able to see can continue in a SP game. MMO properties can be added to a lot of genres and games as well.

Another one is things like background events and draw distances. You aren't going to notice much lag when looking at the sky. People aren't gonna look up and say "hey that cloud looks like its 2 seconds behind schedule!". Hence you can have the cloud process a lot more environmental effects whose latency can be masked by their nature.

You can also offload a lot of AI computations which again, frees up resources for the XB1 to do other stuff.

I also love how people say its difficult to have a cloud mode and non-cloud mode. Offline can be one way and online can be another. MS would love to do this too because MS wants everyone to play online and eventually get XBL Gold. What better way to advertise how great online is for casuals than show them the difference in visuals. This is hardly the only option anyways. There could be modes that can only be played online.

The idiocy in this topic is that the PS4 fanboys are trying to focus on all the things the Cloud is BAD for and ignoring what it can be good for. MS obviously will do whatever can be done the best.
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