Power of the Cloud? just look at how GTA Onlines cloud is doing....

#91DesperateMonkeyPosted 10/8/2013 6:52:49 AM
Again, you restate something you haven't proven. Thats not providing evidence at all. Repeating yourself does not make something true.
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#92SoulTrapperPosted 10/8/2013 7:05:26 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...
Again, you restate something you haven't proven. Thats not providing evidence at all. Repeating yourself does not make something true.


Well, have you proven that the cloud can improve graphics in games played in your home?
Because I certainly don't recall seeing any evidence or anything backing up that claim even.

All I've seen is the conclusion to the DF article, which clearly states that the concept of cloud computing looks uncertain and unlikely.

Unless you can prove that it is certain and likely, please do go ahead.
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PSN: El_Coon
#93DesperateMonkeyPosted 10/8/2013 7:16:12 AM(edited)
SoulTrapper posted...
DesperateMonkey posted...
Again, you restate something you haven't proven. Thats not providing evidence at all. Repeating yourself does not make something true.


Well, have you proven that the cloud can improve graphics in games played in your home?


Why do "I" have to prove this? DF and MS both have come to the understanding that certain things are possible and certain things aren't. They are the authority. You are the one challenging authorities with your made up facts about practical IMPOSSIBILITY.

The silliness of this logic cannot be understated.

I also never said it was certain or likely. I said it was possible. This is you trying to shift the focus onto me because YOU made a ridiculously idiotic claim which you think you are now subtly abandoning now.
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GT: ZiiX360 PSN: BoxFighter85
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#94SoulTrapperPosted 10/8/2013 7:17:20 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...

Why do "I" have to prove this? DF and MS both have come to the understanding that certain things are possible and certain things aren't. They are the authority. You are the one challenging authorities with your made up facts about practical IMPOSSIBILITY.

The silliness of this logic cannot be understated.


No they haven't.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

Could you point out where exactly DF says they think it will happen?

Because they quite clearly state at the end that it's uncertain and unlikely.
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PSN: El_Coon
#95DesperateMonkeyPosted 10/8/2013 7:26:29 AM
Another known possibility for cloud computing is AI, not for direct interactions such as determining if an NPC should duck or shoot, but for background AI in living worlds like Grand Theft Auto and Elder Scrolls. The complexity of these games has always been limited to the console's resources, and AI has often been very limited to simple behaviour routines. Cloud computing could run world simulation and just update the player's local world over time, allowing the world to live and respond to player actions. Such complex game worlds could be a significant advance, but they are also constrained to a limited set of game types. Games like Xbox 360's flagships Gears of War and Forza Motorsport have little need for smart NPC AI of this kind.


Of these, only the ambient background tasks and some forms of lighting stand out as candidates for remote processing.


lol...
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GT: ZiiX360 PSN: BoxFighter85
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#96SoulTrapperPosted 10/8/2013 7:38:14 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...
Another known possibility for cloud computing is AI, not for direct interactions such as determining if an NPC should duck or shoot, but for background AI in living worlds like Grand Theft Auto and Elder Scrolls. The complexity of these games has always been limited to the console's resources, and AI has often been very limited to simple behaviour routines. Cloud computing could run world simulation and just update the player's local world over time, allowing the world to live and respond to player actions. Such complex game worlds could be a significant advance, but they are also constrained to a limited set of game types. Games like Xbox 360's flagships Gears of War and Forza Motorsport have little need for smart NPC AI of this kind.


Okay, now explain to me how that is anything other than data storage or what we've already seen in MMOs.


Of these, only the ambient background tasks and some forms of lighting stand out as candidates for remote processing.
lol...


And the article continues with:

However, improvements in local rendering power and techniques have made real-time global illumination - realistic without the artifacts and limitations of prebaked lighting - a real possibility without needing servers. Crytek's cascaded light propagation volumes were shown running on a GTX 285 in 2009 and was extremely impressive. A future Battlefield game with destructible environments is going to want an immediate lighting solution as opposed to shadows and lighting updating a few seconds after every change.

Which basically says it's pointless and can be done by the console itself as well.

And the second one is the same thing as above, data storage.


And of course, at the end:

What's obvious at this point is that the concept of cloud computing looks uncertain and unlikely, and Microsoft needs to prove its claims with actual software.

All of these things are theoretical possibilities, none of them are actually happening or proven.
As the article clearly states at the end.
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PSN: El_Coon
#97DesperateMonkeyPosted 10/8/2013 8:01:10 AM(edited)
Okay, now explain to me how that is anything other than data storage or what we've already seen in MMOs.


Whao, so your argument went from "its impossible for Cloud to do any of this stuff!" to "lol, its in MMO's so it doesn't count"??

And again, you quote the line that says some games use dynamic lighting. The only way to prove that it will not improve the graphics for ANY game is to:

a)Prove that all games will be using this model
b)Prove that these two models cannot be used in tandem such as in a game with invisible borders and can separate dynamic events from background events

And lastly, your final quote is still a joke and says nothing about this stuff being impossible.


You are just randomly pulling out quotes that "kind of" looks like what you are trying to say but in reality, is different. You made a bad argument and you want us to interpret DF's uncertain speculation as them saying its impossible and accepting that they are also the last authority on the subject. Its quite silly how you speak with more authority and assurance than DF while you obviously know nothing about game development.

I don't know how you think you are fooling anyone here...
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GT: ZiiX360 PSN: BoxFighter85
PC: i7 930@4Ghz | EX58 UD5 | GTX 460 SLI | 8GB DDR3 | 500GB Spinpoint | Vertex 2 180 SSD | Cooler Master HAF X | VG236H
#98SoulTrapperPosted 10/8/2013 8:37:03 AM(edited)
DesperateMonkey posted...
Okay, now explain to me how that is anything other than data storage or what we've already seen in MMOs.


Whao, so your argument went from "its impossible for Cloud to do any of this stuff!" to "lol, its in MMO's so it doesn't count"??


No, my argument is that the cloud can't improve anything in PRACTICE, the entire article is theory.

And again, you quote the line that says some games use dynamic lighting. The only way to prove that it will not improve the graphics for ANY game is to:

a)Prove that all games will be using this model
b)Prove that these two models cannot be used in tandem such as in a game with invisible borders and can separate dynamic events from background events

And lastly, your final quote is still a joke and says nothing about this stuff being impossible.


You're talking gibberish, for it to be able to do this or even proven to be able to do this, there has to be a game using the cloud for this purpose.
There are no games doing this, hence it isn't proven to be possible, hence it is theory.

Of course this stuff isn't impossible IN THEORY, it is impossible practically (or at least not without significant drawbacks), due to technological limitations.


You are just randomly pulling out quotes that "kind of" looks like what you are trying to say but in reality, is different. You made a bad argument and you want us to interpret DF's uncertain speculation as them saying its impossible and accepting that they are also the last authority on the subject. Its quite silly how you speak with more authority and assurance than DF while you obviously know nothing about game development.

I don't know how you think you are fooling anyone here...


I'm simply quoting from the article, specifically the conclusion.

You'd also do good to actually read the topic title:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

In Theory: Can the Xbox One cloud transform next-gen gaming?

All of the possibilities mentioned in the article are theoretical.


I'm done now, have fun continuing to ignore reality and trolling.
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PSN: El_Coon
#99DesperateMonkeyPosted 10/8/2013 8:43:34 AM
SoulTrapper posted...
DesperateMonkey posted...
Okay, now explain to me how that is anything other than data storage or what we've already seen in MMOs.


Whao, so your argument went from "its impossible for Cloud to do any of this stuff!" to "lol, its in MMO's so it doesn't count"??


No, my argument is that the cloud can't improve anything in PRACTICE, the entire article is theory.


Again, you try to dodge the point. The article does not say it can't improve anything in practice. Sorry if I am not allowing you to change your story :(
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GT: ZiiX360 PSN: BoxFighter85
PC: i7 930@4Ghz | EX58 UD5 | GTX 460 SLI | 8GB DDR3 | 500GB Spinpoint | Vertex 2 180 SSD | Cooler Master HAF X | VG236H
#100SoulTrapperPosted 10/9/2013 12:39:35 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...

Again, you try to dodge the point. The article does not say it can't improve anything in practice. Sorry if I am not allowing you to change your story :(


What's obvious at this point is that the concept of cloud computing looks uncertain and unlikely, and Microsoft needs to prove its claims with actual software.
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PSN: El_Coon