Due to the GTA Online fiasco I'm a bit skeptical of the Xboner's cloud power.

#51TheGam3925(Topic Creator)Posted 10/4/2013 7:56:40 PM
SoulTrapper posted...
DesperateMonkey posted...

I tried to redirect it to about being Sony and achievements in stating that that logic is ridiculous? Thats funny to hear.

Also, my only point was that dedicated was free? Even though you said the part where I claimed it will support improved visuals to some extent is false?What the hell is up with your reading? Your entire link to DF was because you claimed I was wrong about Cloud being able to do anything for games.


Again you're making stuff up, I never said it was a false claim or that the cloud won't be able to do anything for gaming, just that it doesn't actually improve graphics and half the things Microsoft claimed about the "power of the cloud" is BS.

The reason I linked it is to show that with current bandwidth limits, the only thing it will be useful for is storing data and dedicated servers.


But in the Digital Foundry article, it clearly states that

1)It can be used for lighting/day night cycles
2)It can be used for physics
3)It can be used for AI
4)It can be used to make worlds bigger
5)It can be used to support more players in a MP game
6)Other ambient effects and whatever else people want to ad that is not latency sensitive

So how was that article suppose to help you?


Yes, it also clearly states that none of these things are feasible at this point with current technological limits.
And none of those things will actually help improve graphics at all by having them calculated in the cloud.

The article clearly states the "power of the cloud" is futuristic BS speak and the only benefits are for multiplayer games and data storage:

What's obvious at this point is that the concept of cloud computing looks uncertain and unlikely, and Microsoft needs to prove its claims with actual software. Yet based on what we've been told, the firm itself isn't sure of what uses to put it to, while the limitations of latency and bandwidth severely impede the benefits of all that computing power. Frequent references to Live and multiplayer gaming suggest a less exciting, though certainly valuable, use for Microsoft's new servers in providing better, conventional, multiplayer experiences. More players, adaptive achievements and intelligent worlds all sound great in theory, but we're certainly not seeing the notional results of a four-fold increase in Xbox One's processing power.

Microsoft needs to prove its position with strong ideas and practical demonstrations. Until then, it's perhaps best not to get too carried away with the idea of a super-powered console, and there's very little evidence that Sony needs to be worried about its PS4 specs advantage being comprehensively wiped out by "the power of the cloud".


This. Magical clouds aren't going to improve your graphics card. What's next magic rainbows?
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#52FoppePosted 10/5/2013 1:20:40 AM
What about...
...a double rainbow?
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#53TheGam3925(Topic Creator)Posted 10/5/2013 2:07:43 AM
Foppe posted...
What about...
...a double rainbow?


Geez, how many transistors would that be?
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#54FoppePosted 10/5/2013 2:13:06 AM
TheGam3925 posted...
Foppe posted...
What about...
...a double rainbow?


Geez, how many transistors would that be?


Only one.
The main point is that it's 20% cooler than the other transistors.
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#55DesperateMonkeyPosted 10/5/2013 9:40:13 AM(edited)
SoulTrapper posted...
DesperateMonkey posted...

I tried to redirect it to about being Sony and achievements in stating that that logic is ridiculous? Thats funny to hear.

Also, my only point was that dedicated was free? Even though you said the part where I claimed it will support improved visuals to some extent is false?What the hell is up with your reading? Your entire link to DF was because you claimed I was wrong about Cloud being able to do anything for games.


Again you're making stuff up, I never said it was a false claim or that the cloud won't be able to do anything for gaming, just that it doesn't actually improve graphics and half the things Microsoft claimed about the "power of the cloud" is BS.


*facepalm*

So it doesn't improve graphics but it can improve lighting, ambient effects, player counts and offload AI and other non latency sensitive calculations to free up processing power?????

Man you fanboys need to read aloud to yourselves before posting.
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#56SoulTrapperPosted 10/5/2013 10:42:01 AM(edited)
DesperateMonkey posted...

*facepalm*

So it doesn't improve graphics but it can improve lighting, ambient effects, player counts and offload AI and other non latency sensitive calculations to free up processing power?????

Man you fanboys need to read aloud to yourselves before posting.


It can't improve lighting and ambient effects, it can THEORETICALLY do them instead of the console itself.

Improve player counts? That's weird, as far as I know there isn't a single multiplat game that allows for more players at a time on the xbox.

Offloading AI and non latency sensitive calculations won't improve graphics.
It certainly didn't do so for Forza:

One of these is Forza 4, the other Forza 5, can you tell me which is which by looking at the graphics?

http://i.imgur.com/ToEpHEd.jpg

I'll just post this again, since you chose to ignore it:

What's obvious at this point is that the concept of cloud computing looks uncertain and unlikely, and Microsoft needs to prove its claims with actual software. Yet based on what we've been told, the firm itself isn't sure of what uses to put it to, while the limitations of latency and bandwidth severely impede the benefits of all that computing power. Frequent references to Live and multiplayer gaming suggest a less exciting, though certainly valuable, use for Microsoft's new servers in providing better, conventional, multiplayer experiences. More players, adaptive achievements and intelligent worlds all sound great in theory, but we're certainly not seeing the notional results of a four-fold increase in Xbox One's processing power.

Microsoft needs to prove its position with strong ideas and practical demonstrations. Until then, it's perhaps best not to get too carried away with the idea of a super-powered console, and there's very little evidence that Sony needs to be worried about its PS4 specs advantage being comprehensively wiped out by "the power of the cloud".


I'll put it simply: none of these things are possible due to bandwidth limitations.

Unless you can prove otherwise, of course, if you can, please do post the evidence.

Also, if the cloud based anything was this damn good (or even remotely possible) why haven't we seen it being utilized on PCs?
Why is there not a single dev out there that has done anything to improve their games using "the cloud"?

If it really was such a game changer, why has it not been used in the ways MS claims it will be used?
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#57MrImpatient35Posted 10/5/2013 10:43:49 AM
I'm sure that by now, somebody already explained why this isn't the same thing as 300k servers.
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#58SoulTrapperPosted 10/5/2013 10:47:08 AM
MrImpatient35 posted...
I'm sure that by now, somebody already explained why this isn't the same thing as 300k servers.


Yeah, nothing can go wrong with Azure!

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/02/microsoft-cloud-goes-poof/

http://thevarguy.com/cloud-computing-services-and-business-solutions/office-365-upgrade-and-outlook-microsoft-issues-warn

http://blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-computing/21902/microsoft-cloud-pr-fail-hotmail-skydrive-go-down-hours-itbwcw

http://www.cloudpro.co.uk/email/3204/outlookcom-restored-after-three-days-of-problems


Could you tell me how many of those 300k are actual servers and how many are virtual? I can't seem to find/get an answer to that.
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#59DesperateMonkeyPosted 10/6/2013 11:51:42 AM


It can't improve lighting and ambient effects, it can THEORETICALLY do them instead of the console itself.

Improve player counts? That's weird, as far as I know there isn't a single multiplat game that allows for more players at a time on the xbox.


So you want to play semantics? Also yes it can improve lighting according to the article because it can throw lighting onto a much bigger area and this will also improve general graphics quality since you are taking off resources from lighting. This gives you a lot of free resources for a certain graphical effect.

Then you talk about player count with the cloud not being improved because of Xbox 360 or something? Because we haven't seen the XBO yet nor do we know what games will be out for it in the future...

Offloading AI and non latency sensitive calculations won't improve graphics.
It certainly didn't do so for Forza:

One of these is Forza 4, the other Forza 5, can you tell me which is which by looking at the graphics?

http://i.imgur.com/ToEpHEd.jpg


I'm sorry, the only thing F5 says its doing with Cloud is drivatars. Your argument that people aren't using the cloud yet for certain features = no one will ever use them is pretty idiotic. Listing your silly article makes no difference. I wouldn't trust developers who say Cloud is good or bad, let alone Eurogamer.

I'll put it simply: none of these things are possible due to bandwidth limitations.


Wow, made up facts. Eurogamer did not say any kind of improvement is impossible due to bandwidth limitations. Its like you can't read your own articles.

Also, if the cloud based anything was this damn good (or even remotely possible) why haven't we seen it being utilized on PCs?


Jeez, PC is a single platform owned by a single company that has billions of dollars of servers to provide for all games and expects to make it back through software royalties, hardware sales, advertisements and so on? Why do you ask such stupid questions?


Why is there not a single dev out there that has done anything to improve their games using "the cloud"?

If it really was such a game changer, why has it not been used in the ways MS claims it will be used?


Another dumb question. If the PS4 is so much more powerful, why isn't there much of a difference between the two consoles so far? The early titles are never a good demonstration of anything... PS2 launch titles often looked like PSX games.
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#60SoulTrapperPosted 10/6/2013 12:05:55 PM
DesperateMonkey posted...

So you want to play semantics? Also yes it can improve lighting according to the article because it can throw lighting onto a much bigger area and this will also improve general graphics quality since you are taking off resources from lighting. This gives you a lot of free resources for a certain graphical effect.

Then you talk about player count with the cloud not being improved because of Xbox 360 or something? Because we haven't seen the XBO yet nor do we know what games will be out for it in the future...


That's not semantics, that's the entire point:
Whether what is claimed by Microsoft is possible in current day reality.

I can claim that we'll have free wireless internet around the globe at the speed of light.
This is theoretically possible, it's not possible with current day technological limitations.


I'm sorry, the only thing F5 says its doing with Cloud is drivatars. Your argument that people aren't using the cloud yet for certain features = no one will ever use them is pretty idiotic. Listing your silly article makes no difference. I wouldn't trust developers who say Cloud is good or bad, let alone Eurogamer.


Where did I claim none will ever use them? You're making up arguments again.

My argument is that it's not possible to use the cloud for graphic improvements with current day technological limitations.

That article is the same article you claimed was backing up your point a day ago.
I can see why you like the xbox: you love doing 180s as well.


Wow, made up facts. Eurogamer did not say any kind of improvement is impossible due to bandwidth limitations. Its like you can't read your own articles.


Again, read the actual article:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

Yet based on what we've been told, the firm itself isn't sure of what uses to put it to, while the limitations of latency and bandwidth severely impede the benefits of all that computing power


Jeez, PC is a single platform owned by a single company that has billions of dollars of servers to provide for all games and expects to make it back through software royalties, hardware sales, advertisements and so on? Why do you ask such stupid questions?


So why hasn't EA done it? Why hasn't Valve done it? Why hasn't Blizzard done it?
These are all very wealthy corporations, all very much capable of utilizing servers and the cloud.

EA even used the cloud for Simcity (which resulted in one of the worst launches ever btw) and they're only using it for data storage.


Another dumb question. If the PS4 is so much more powerful, why isn't there much of a difference between the two consoles so far? The early titles are never a good demonstration of anything... PS2 launch titles often looked like PSX games.


Have you been offline the last months?

The ps4 is 50 more powerful, confirmed by multiple devs.

And if you're talking about games, just look at Battlefield 4: running above 720p on ps4 for months, struggling to get to 720p on xbox last week.

I'm no sony fanboy and I'm not getting either console at this point, but denying obvious facts is just stupid.
But seeing as how that's what you've been doing for days, I'm not really surprised.
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