Xbox One Can Work Like a TV That Watches Consumers In Their Living Rooms

#181SoulTrapper(Topic Creator)Posted 10/11/2013 1:38:50 PM
Ch3wy posted...

Strawman 101 here folks. I don't bother arguing against his strawman so I agree with him.

Also congrats on trying to prove the topic's point wrong. I don't really care for it but I find this funny. You're so worried about them collecting data, but the ToU being invalid would make them unable to legally do so.


"H-help me, people! I can't argue against facts but am too arrogant to admit my fault!"

Except that's wrong, they've already been doing the exact same thing on Skype.
Completely legal, because the government approved it.

You know you're wrong and now you're trying to twist things around.

It's quite sad really.



There is no in or out of context. The premise is a plain statement that stands on its own.

Saying they are not clear cut would disprove the statement "Privacy policies are not legally binding".


Again, taking something out of it's context and trying to argue against it doesn't make any sense.
I was talking on the xbox one message board, in a topic about the xbox one privacy statement.
How on earth did you think this was about privacy statement sin general?



You don't have to agree to the ToU to agree to the privacy policy.


That doesn't even make any sense, because there is nothing to agree to regarding the privacy policy outside of the ToU.

You're getting quite desperate.
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PSN: El_Coon
#182Ch3wyPosted 10/11/2013 1:48:09 PM(edited)
SoulTrapper posted...


"H-help me, people! I can't argue against facts but am too arrogant to admit my fault!"

Except that's wrong, they've already been doing the exact same thing on Skype.
Completely legal, because the government approved it.

You know you're wrong and now you're trying to twist things around.

It's quite sad really.

Now you're just being immature and hypocritical. Come on, look at yourself here. That's obnoxious.


Again, taking something out of it's context and trying to argue against it doesn't make any sense.
I was talking on the xbox one message board, in a topic about the xbox one privacy statement.
How on earth did you think this was about privacy statement sin general?

You're just taking this in circles. I've been over this with you. I set out to disprove your premise because it was silly. Your premise was clear as day about privacy statements in general.


You don't have to agree to the ToU to agree to the privacy policy.

That doesn't even make any sense, because there is nothing to agree to regarding the privacy policy outside of the ToU.

You're getting quite desperate.


Yeah, you sure about that? You want to say that a privacy statement that only mentions Xbox in two small bullet points is only referenced by the Xbox LIVE ToU?
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Every time you point out that something is an opinion Jesus shoots a kitten in the face.
#183SoulTrapper(Topic Creator)Posted 10/11/2013 1:50:48 PM
Ch3wy posted...

Now you're just being immature and hypocritical. Come on, look at yourself here. That's obnoxious.


Says the guy who can't admit he was wrong



You're just taking this in circles. I've been over this with you. I set out to disprove your premise because it was silly. Your premise was clear as day about privacy statements in general.


Again, taken out of context



Yeah, you sure about that? You want to say that a privacy statement that only mentions Xbox in two small bullet points is only referenced by the Xbox LIVE ToU?


Where did I say that?
Now you're making stuff up again.

Since you've stopped trying to debate the actual point due to being proven wrong and have to resort to petty insults, no good will come of this topic anymore, so time to close it.



Let's leave it at this:

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/legal/livetou

Your privacy is important to us. We collect certain information about you to operate and provide the Services. We may also automatically upload information about your computer, your use of the Services, and Services' performance as part of the Services.

Personal information collected by Microsoft may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country or region in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries, or service providers maintain facilities. You consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country or region.

If you use the Xbox console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console and the Services to improve Microsoft products and services. All such data may be stored with the Xbox console's unique identifier, and may be associated with personally identifiable information.

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PSN: El_Coon
#184Ch3wyPosted 10/11/2013 1:54:51 PM
SoulTrapper posted...

Says the guy who can't admit he was wrong

Are we in a gradeschool cafeteria now? Come on man.


Again, taken out of context

And again, read my previous refutation on that statement. Premises have no context.



Yeah, you sure about that? You want to say that a privacy statement that only mentions Xbox in two small bullet points is only referenced by the Xbox LIVE ToU?

Where did I say that?
Now you're making stuff up again.

Right here:

That doesn't even make any sense, because there is nothing to agree to regarding the privacy policy outside of the ToU.




Let's leave it at this:

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/legal/livetou

Your privacy is important to us. We collect certain information about you to operate and provide the Services. We may also automatically upload information about your computer, your use of the Services, and Services' performance as part of the Services.

Personal information collected by Microsoft may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country or region in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries, or service providers maintain facilities. You consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country or region.

If you use the Xbox console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console and the Services to improve Microsoft products and services. All such data may be stored with the Xbox console's unique identifier, and may be associated with personally identifiable information.

I thought that wasn't valid.
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Every time you point out that something is an opinion Jesus shoots a kitten in the face.
#185SoulTrapper(Topic Creator)Posted 10/11/2013 1:59:39 PM
Ch3wy posted...

Are we in a gradeschool cafeteria now? Come on man.


Apparently, someone can't stand being proven wrong and stopped trying to have an actual debate.



And again, read my previous refutation on that statement. Premises have no context.


That's because you didn't read the topic.
Not my fault.



Right here:

That doesn't even make any sense, because there is nothing to agree to regarding the privacy policy outside of the ToU.



Where does it say that privacy statement is only for the xbox?

I'll try and simplify it, since it seems to be hard for you:

You never have to agree to a privacy policy outside of the terms of use (for any product).
There is no separate agreement for the privacy policy.


I thought that wasn't valid.


It isn't, but it's still there.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/legal/livetou

Your privacy is important to us. We collect certain information about you to operate and provide the Services. We may also automatically upload information about your computer, your use of the Services, and Services' performance as part of the Services.

Personal information collected by Microsoft may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country or region in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries, or service providers maintain facilities. You consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country or region.

If you use the Xbox console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console and the Services to improve Microsoft products and services. All such data may be stored with the Xbox console's unique identifier, and may be associated with personally identifiable information.

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PSN: El_Coon
#186Ch3wyPosted 10/11/2013 2:04:21 PM
SoulTrapper posted...


Apparently, someone can't stand being proven wrong and stopped trying to have an actual debate.

I'm not about to type out responses to ad hominems and strawmans. That's not something I like to debate


That's because you didn't read the topic.
Not my fault.

The truth value of the premise has nothing to do with whether I read the topic or not.




Where does it say that privacy statement is only for the xbox?

I'll try and simplify it, since it seems to be hard for you:

You never have to agree to a privacy policy outside of the terms of use (for any product).
There is no separate agreement for the privacy policy.


Let me repeat myself:You want to say that a privacy statement that only mentions Xbox in two small bullet points is only referenced by the Xbox LIVE ToU?

Protip: There are other ToUs that reference it.




It isn't, but it's still there.

Why would you care if it's there if it's not valid? That would mean it doesn't mean anything?
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Every time you point out that something is an opinion Jesus shoots a kitten in the face.
#187Ch3wyPosted 10/11/2013 2:11:23 PM
FYI:

We save and use non-personally identifying information without restriction.
We save and use personally identifying information that we may collect for a particular promotional purpose through one of our websites, services, applications, or other promotional opportunities only for that purpose, unless the participant chooses (by opting in or by not opting out, as applicable) to participate in one of the programs discussed below.
We save and use personally identifying information collected through our websites, services, applications, features thereof, and the Sony Entertainment Network for administration, including providing SEN account holders with online video, music and videogame services, videogame-, video-, music- and other content-related commerce and activity services, in-game advertising services and community services, internal analysis and research to improve our websites, applications, and other products and services, administering customer transactions, monitoring for fraudulent activities and transactions, preventing abuse of the Sony Entertainment Network and ensuring compliance with the applicable Terms of Service and User Agreement and this privacy policy.
SNEI may use personally identifying information for marketing and demographic studies. For example, SNEI may use a SEN account holder's Online ID to cross-reference passive information with non-personally identifying information in his or her profile, such as gender or age, in order to develop aggregated information about who uses PSN and how. We or the Sony Group of Companies may conduct these studies or may hire a third party to conduct them. These studies are for internal purposes only, to help us improve our websites, products and services to better meet our users' needs.
Consumers who opt-in or do not opt-out, as applicable, or otherwise voluntarily provide personally identifying information via one of our websites, applications, or services for purposes of receiving marketing materials will receive marketing materials that we believe are of interest to these consumers.
Email addresses collected during the use of the E-Cards or "Send-to-a-Friend" email features on our websites (if available) are not retained by us, and are only used to send a one-time email notification on a consumer's behalf.
SNEI's Consumer Services department maintains information obtained from consumers who contact or submit a complaint so that we may assist these customers with current or future service issues. SNEI's Consumer Services department may collect additional information such as credit card or other payment information or bank account information if a consumer contacts Consumer Services to request repair of, exchange of or service on an applicable Sony device. Consumer Services uses this information for payment and payment verification purposes. SNEIís Consumer Services department may direct consumers to the consumer services departments of other companies with whom SNEI has arranged to provide consumer service.

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Every time you point out that something is an opinion Jesus shoots a kitten in the face.
#188SoulTrapper(Topic Creator)Posted 10/11/2013 2:14:30 PM(edited)
Ch3wy posted...

I'm not about to type out responses to ad hominems and strawmans. That's not something I like to debate


I've proven that the way the updates to the ToU are handled make it so that it isn't legal.

You know you've been proven wrong, that's why tried to deflect it by claiming MS had different wording first (which is irrelevant) and then tried to say that they had an extra clause in their ToU (which is once again, irrelevant).

This topic has served it's use, you've been proven wrong, people have been informed about the kinect and the fact that Microsoft can use it to collect your personal data.



The truth value of the premise has nothing to do with whether I read the topic or not.


Of course it does, it's called "context"


Let me repeat myself:You want to say that a privacy statement that only mentions Xbox in two small bullet points is only referenced by the Xbox LIVE ToU?

Protip: There are other ToUs that reference it.


Pro-tip: it's irrelevant.

You never have to agree to the privacy policy by itself, so it's only relevance is in relation to the ToU(s) that mention it.
I've proven one of these ToUs (the one we are discussing here, the xbox ToU) is faulty and as such the privacy policy mentioned within that ToU has no legal worth either.

That on top of the fact that I've already proven that there are other flaws in there, of course.



Why would you care if it's there if it's not valid? That would mean it doesn't mean anything?


Not at all, that would mean it doesn't mean anything when brought before court.

It's still highly relevant for anyone thinking about getting an xbox one.


I also fail to see how sony's ToU is relevant here?
I'm not here to defend sony.

It's pretty indicative of where you took this discussion after being proven wrong: in a circle of irrelevance.

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PSN: El_Coon
#189Ch3wyPosted 10/11/2013 2:16:55 PM
SoulTrapper posted...


I've proven that the way the updates to the ToU are handled make it so that it isn't legal.

You know you've been proven wrong, that's why tried to deflect it by claiming MS had different wording first (which is irrelevant) and then tried to say that they had an extra clause in their ToU (which is once again, irrelevant).

This topic has served it's use, you've been proven wrong, people have been informed about the kinect and the fact that Microsoft can use it to collect your personal data.



Are you really going to argue that the wording and additional clauses of a legal document don't make a difference?


Of course it does, it's called "context"

Seriously stop taking this in circles. Premises don't have context lol.



Pro-tip: it's irrelevant.

You never have to agree to the privacy policy by itself, so it's only relevance is in relation to the ToU(s) that mention it.
I've proven one of these ToUs (the one we are discussing here, the xbox ToU) is faulty and as such the privacy policy mentioned within that ToU has no legal worth either.

That on top of the fact that I've already proven that there are other flaws in there, of course.

You've proven nothing, you've only mentioned your own faulty speculation which is against an army of lawyers that MS had write it up. Bold claim for someone who hasn't even been to law school.

And it's entirely relevant. The LIVE ToU isn't the only thing that mentions it so it's validity is not directly tied to it.


Not at all, that would mean it doesn't mean anything when brought before court.

It's still highly relevant for anyone thinking about getting an xbox one.


Not really, they'd just get sued right away if a layman has already proven it wrong.
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Every time you point out that something is an opinion Jesus shoots a kitten in the face.
#190SoulTrapper(Topic Creator)Posted 10/11/2013 2:24:19 PM(edited)
Ch3wy posted...

Are you really going to argue that the wording and additional clauses of a legal document don't make a difference?


Post them, prove they make a difference.



Seriously stop taking this in circles. Premises don't have context lol.


It's a premise because you failed to read the topic and took it out of context.




You've proven nothing, you've only mentioned your own faulty speculation which is against an army of lawyers that MS had write it up. Bold claim for someone who hasn't even been to law school.


It's not my claim, it's the claim of several judges and courts:


http://blogs.findlaw.com/free_enterprise/2009/05/facebook-blockbuster-and-changing-terms-of-use-agreements.html

But you've already made it abundantly clear you're not actually going to try and refute it, because you know you're wrong.


And it's entirely relevant. The LIVE ToU isn't the only thing that mentions it so it's validity is not directly tied to it.


You're now separating the ToU and the privacy statement, that's not how it works.
You agree to both when agreeing to the ToU, not to each one separately.


Not really, they'd just get sued right away if a layman has already proven it wrong.


What is there to sue them over?

Unless there is a compensable loss, there is nothing to sue them over.


http://www.xbox.com/en-us/legal/livetou

Your privacy is important to us. We collect certain information about you to operate and provide the Services. We may also automatically upload information about your computer, your use of the Services, and Services' performance as part of the Services.

Personal information collected by Microsoft may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country or region in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries, or service providers maintain facilities. You consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country or region.

If you use the Xbox console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console and the Services to improve Microsoft products and services. All such data may be stored with the Xbox console's unique identifier, and may be associated with personally identifiable information.

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PSN: El_Coon