Its been months and some of you are still worried about privacy?

#11NewMoonShadowPosted 10/13/2013 4:44:26 PM(edited)
whitelytning posted...
**Warning** You will find intelligent discussion in this thread. **Warning**

I realize most of you are smart enough to understand basic privacy rights and how things work and most of this thread will be old but its also clear that some of you still don't. I'm not sure if you just refuse at accept basic truths or actually don't know. I read an article this weekend by a professor I used to have about 4th amendment protection and how modern technology is making modern 4th amendment case law problematic and ill fit to govern the real life. In the article he talked about how pervasive modern technology can be and the problems it causes in determining the limits to government intrusion in our homes. It gave a good background of privacy as it relates to technology and made me want to make this thread.

Here are the basics.

-- The fourth amendment protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. This means for the 4th amendment to apply, the search or seizure has to be (1) unreasonable, and (2) by the government (not individual people or private parties).
-- Anything that can be seen or heard by an ordinary observer or that is placed in the public is not protected. The case law is clear that we do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy over information that can be observed in the public and therefore the search is not unreasonable.
-- The "third party doctrine" which has developed says that government use of information voluntarily given to third parties is a reasonable search and not prohibited by the 4th Amendment. Case law is also very clear here, we do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy over information given to third parties so a search is not unreasonable.

If we apply these basic elements of privacy protection to the xbox 1 you see that you don't have the privacy over the information in the way some of you think you do. Any information you give to MS (or any other company) regarding yourself is outside of the fourth amendment protection and can be obtained by the government in any legal manner. Anything you put or say on Xbox live would be considered to be in public and you would not have privacy rights to that information. The kinect simply changes the amount and kind of data that is stored but doesn't change any of the rules regarding access to it.


But we do have a right to not use the Kinect, or the X-Box One, if we do not agree with what Microsoft plans to hand over to the Government, or other interested third parties.

I don't think anyone's arguing that it's illegal or anything, just that they hate it and do not want it, which they're well within their right to say.
#12djw2005Posted 10/13/2013 4:44:10 PM
If I were a criminal, I certainly wouldn't want Kinect in my house.

As a non-criminal, I still don't want Microsoft collecting my data for their gain. It isn't a 4th Amendment issue at all. For an intelligent discussion, check out the US Consumer Privacy Bill of Rights.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/privacy-final.pdf
#13RyuuHou25Posted 10/13/2013 4:49:38 PM
*Looks at title....looks at well written out OP*

I'm confused here.....you're questioning if people are still worried about privacy, and then flat out tell them that yes, they should be worried about it.

Yet your title would infer that you are questioning why people are worried about it like they shouldn't be?
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#14whitelytning(Topic Creator)Posted 10/13/2013 6:43:28 PM
RyuuHou25 posted...
*Looks at title....looks at well written out OP*

I'm confused here.....you're questioning if people are still worried about privacy, and then flat out tell them that yes, they should be worried about it.

Yet your title would infer that you are questioning why people are worried about it like they shouldn't be?


The point I was trying to make is that the same privacy issues people have with this console exist in every day life in areas where they are completely comfortable.
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#15whitelytning(Topic Creator)Posted 10/13/2013 6:45:12 PM
NewMoonShadow posted...

But we do have a right to not use the Kinect, or the X-Box One, if we do not agree with what Microsoft plans to hand over to the Government, or other interested third parties.

I don't think anyone's arguing that it's illegal or anything, just that they hate it and do not want it, which they're well within their right to say.


You are right. If someone is worried enough to not buy it that is completely rational and understandable. I think a lot more people than you do make terrible arguments about what MS can and cannot do with data based on a poor understanding of basic privacy issues.
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#16macmahon187Posted 10/14/2013 5:25:01 AM
So because you use email and that email provider has access to the information you a passing along I suppose it's cool for the gov to swoop in and request every piece of information related to you. That doesn't sound right.

In this case you are using the hardware for entertainment. You are not expecting microsoft to take every bit of info and store it on mega servers to be used against you in the future. Are you?

If so then you have been conditioned to believe you have no right to privacy. But then again we are talking about a group of people willingly putting a camera in there home when the corporation that makes said camera is known to willingly share all info on its customer base. What ever go back to sleep sheep.
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#17SoulTrapperPosted 10/14/2013 5:36:10 AM
So basically you're saying we should be okay with a camera in our living room ,because the government can read my emails?

That doesn't make much sense.
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#18whitelytning(Topic Creator)Posted 10/14/2013 3:36:32 PM
SoulTrapper posted...
So basically you're saying we should be okay with a camera in our living room ,because the government can read my emails?

That doesn't make much sense.


No. Restating what someone says in a very different way to make it sound ridiculous isn't a great way to make a point.
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#19Shiranui777Posted 10/14/2013 3:50:47 PM
Wiretapping and Eavesdropping are crimes in many places. And those apply to anyone. You also leave out individual country laws since not everyone is from USA. I personally don't see the point of a camera in my living room and all so I don't see why it cannot be optional.
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#20singhellotakuPosted 10/14/2013 3:55:39 PM
I didn't know we were arguing it was illegal, just that we didn't like it