2 years ago#141
"i've had sex with a chick who was a psy major, so yeah i think i know what aspergers is" -LiquidFuze180
2 years ago#142
We are not both right to an extent....
If you're new to Drivatar, none of the computer racers in Forza 5 are generic AI archetypes - they're all modelled on the behaviour of individual players, whose traits are brought into your session depending on your own racing tactics. The system is designed to learn from your playstyle and evolve alongside you.
"With a system like this, we can race together, even when we're not together," said Mathis. "And we don't have to do all the same things, like [Turn 10 boss Dan Greenawalt] pointed out, because we learn about your tendencies across different tracks - we understand how certain spots on one track relate to a spot on another track.
"We can build a profile of you that can go anywhere. So I can race him on the tracks I like even though he hasn't been there, and I get to see the cars he's using. So if he goes and gets a cool new livery, we can talk about it next time we touch base, see each other face to face."
"When you've got a learning neural network, more computing power is nothing but helpful. Because what you're able to do is process a lot more information, and you don't have to do it in realtime on the box. And that frees up more of the box to be doing graphics or audio or other computational areas.
"So we can now make our AI instead of just being 20%, 10% of the box's capability, we can make it 600% of the box's capability," he went on. "Put it in the cloud and free up that 10% or 20% to make the graphics better - on a box that's already more powerful than we worked on before."
It's nice you have a theory on how it works, but this is what actual devs have said. I have never said how I think it works, just what professionals say.
PSN/XBL/Steam - cowboyoni
2 years ago#143
You cannot "update" AI without processing actions into performance patterns. How many times would you like to fail at this subject? Please tell me how an update would work without recalculating the AI? On second thought, I fear what kind of BS might come out of your mouth next. "Well you see, the cloud just watches the video and then stores that in its brain and uses that image of how it happened for other people!"
There is no need for any recalculations. You simply select the profile closest to what the player achieved (by comparing the time at checkpoints throughout the track).
They said themselves that everything is based off of pre-rendered AIs.
The biggest issue here is that none of it has actually been shown, so there isn't a shred of evidence for it.
We already know Microsoft lied about the cloud before and believing a guy who claims they can do 600% more AI now is rather hard.
Even the xbox magazine guy himself addressed that part as hyperbole.
Also, its hilarious you say people claim it can perform miracles and you find one poster who said it can do stuff beyond Cloud processing... Thats the MIRCALE you are talking about? We already have stuff beyond cloud processing such as outside uses like TV and Smartmatch...
No, you're right, people didn't claim it in this topic.
You are pure comedic gold. A true disgrace to PS4 fanboys everywhere. The PS4 is a great console. They don't need your desperation. In fact, they desperately don't want it.
See, that's the problem: you know you hardly have any arguments, so you need to padd them up with brainless insults.
You know I'm no ps4 fanboy, yet you try to discredit my claims by saying that I am.
That is desperation.
2 years ago#144
It wasn't there, because the AI calculations in an MMO are pretty much non-existant.
It's basically repeating the same patterns over and over.
Bringing that up in a conversation about the Microsoft cloud is strange to say the least.
It's comparing driving your bike to the local butcher shop to going to the moon in a racket.
Furthermore, it only adds to the evidence that cloud computing won't be possible for xbox one games.
Was I wrong to claim it was only data storage and not acknowledging the very basic AI calculations? Yes.
Were you wrong claiming I denied it was AI? Yes.
Is the cloud going to add anything beyond data storage and dedicated servers? Highly unlikely.
Because it will load the profile.
It doesn't need to do any calculations in the cloud, this can (and will) all be done locally.
And now you need to resort to lies, just like the other two guys.
I never said devs are lying, I said they're exaggerating (which the writer of the forza article even acknowledges) and that their claims aren't actually saying anything.
Kojima saying the future is cloud gaming, doesn't mean it is possible at this time.
As the only in depth look by an independent source proves:
2 years ago#145
You are giving too much credit to Drivatars. Drivatars don't make the underlying AI any better or worse. Please note that the Drivatar tech has been in Forza and promoted from the beginning. The only unique thing about them now is the automatic tailoring of the AI to your friends. The actual AI does not use the cloud. That is proved by the fact that Forza can be played offline.
Do you have to be connected to the Internet to play Forza 5? The answer to that question is no -- with a slight catch. The game must log in to Xbox Live at least once, but when it does Forza 5 caches car and race data necessary for offline play. So, after that initial connection, you will be able to play Forza offline.
Given this observation, the "600% of the box's capability" quote just sounds silly. The only benefit that the cloud brings is that as for the training "you don't have to do it in realtime on the box". Well that ignores the fact that you never had to do it realtime. You could save the gaming data and do that processing anytime you wanted.
I also made the observation that there really aren't that many different driving styles. I realize that Turn 10 is trying to make a big deal out of dynamically creating drivatars. That is their design choice, but like I said, I seriously doubt that anyone could tell the difference between a custom created drivatar and one that was selected from a preset of 100. I pulled that number out of thin air but with games coming on Blu-Ray disks now, that number could be 500, or 1000 if need be.
The Drivatar + Cloud is not there to make the game better, but for marketing. It is the same thing that Sony tried to do with the Sixaxis controller when they forced unnecessary gyro and accelerometer controls into games.
2 years ago#146
I don't understand you - you ask for proof, something that's already in practice and not theory, but when given it you say that it's for some reason strange to bring up. What do you expect as proof? Do you want a time traveler to show us what MS's cloud is going to do?
The AI calculations aren't pretty much non-existent by the way. They might be small but there are hundreds and thousands going on at once.
Every time you point out that something is an opinion Jesus shoots a kitten in the face.
2 years ago#148
Just when you think a guy can't sink any lower. Now he actually makes up stuff just to try and fight for his argument. When did turn 10 say this? In fact, Cowboy just quoted them saying that its a LEARNING neural network.
So you are also making up stuff based on how easy or hard you think Forza's AIs are and declaring they are not special even though you've never used it?
Then you are trying to make the silly argument that SoulTrapper isn't wrong even though he said there is no processing, by creating an imaginary argument where you are an authority on AI creation along with the made up assumption that you already know exactly how the Drivatars are? Apparently he is not wrong even though the AI IS being processed in the system dynamically but apparently he is right because you say its useless? Basically, he is wrong but he is right for no reason? Then you give us made up methods of how Forza 5 does their AI with absolutely no sources to back them up except that you "know"?
Sounds like a bad alt...
GT: ZiiX360 PSN: BoxFighter85
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2 years ago#149
I'm sure like any game with online features, those features won't be available if you play offline......
At any rate this is getting old, your argument has now boiled down to same thing soultrapper did. I say "Here is links/quotes of devs saying they offload AI computing to the cloud", then you say "no their lying, and this is how I think the game works".
I say "well that's not how the devs say it works" so you say "doesn't matter I'm sticking with how I think it works"
And round and round we go. Personally I'm going with what actual developers say over what random person on GF says.
PSN/XBL/Steam - cowboyoni
2 years ago#150
I just read this thread and I can summarise it thusly:
Guy 1: Rabble rabble rabble, I'm right, you're wrong, rabble rabble rabble
Guy 2: Rabble rabble rabble, no I'm right and you're wrong, rabble rabble rabble
Repeat ad infinitum.
Seriously, the pair of you need to grow the **** up.
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