Benefits of The Cloud.

#21khardbored(Topic Creator)Posted 10/21/2013 3:47:46 PM
Xeeh_Bitz posted...
It's possible but the problem is, what happens if it's a hot release item and 5 million people are trying to play the game at once, while 35 million other people are trying to play something else. 300k servers for 40 million isn't exactly a lot.

Sounds like, a lot of people are going to be without games due to crashes.


That is assuming that 1 server handles 1 person. It doesn't work that way, at all. 1 server can service multiple consoles.
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#22Xeeh_BitzPosted 10/21/2013 3:52:42 PM(edited)
khardbored posted...
Xeeh_Bitz posted...
It's possible but the problem is, what happens if it's a hot release item and 5 million people are trying to play the game at once, while 35 million other people are trying to play something else. 300k servers for 40 million isn't exactly a lot.

Sounds like, a lot of people are going to be without games due to crashes.


That is assuming that 1 server handles 1 person(133 people per server, they're virtual servers). It doesn't work that way, at all. 1 server can service multiple consoles.


That's way more than 1 server per person. You're also assuming those servers are strictly for games and not other Xbox Live functions, nor Xbox cloud storage, and multiplayer games.
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#23khardbored(Topic Creator)Posted 10/21/2013 3:52:58 PM
Well, you're not talking in real world numbers so it's hard to give an accurate reply.
You're also assuming that every single game on the Xbox One will be using the cloud. And that ever single Xbox One will be on-line. You're also saying that there will be tens of millions playing at the same time.
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#24SoulTrapperPosted 10/21/2013 3:56:39 PM(edited)
khardbored posted...
It does this, which are part of the "a lot of things",

AI processing.
Lighting.
Physics.
All of these things that can have a portion done by the cloud will free up the local hardware.
I take it you didn't actually read my OP? I already said this there.

And the us winning, we're getting the benefits of it. It's not a VS thing, so to speak. If it's vs anything, it would be vs NOT having the cloud do those things.



If we look at a typical game's requirements of its processors, we can look for opportunities to utilise the cloud. A typical game engine cycle consists of:

Game physics (update models)
Triangle setup and optimisation
Tessellation
Texturing
Shading
Various render passes
Lighting calculations
Post effects
Immediate AI
Ambient (world) AI
Immediate physics (shots, collisions)
Ambient physics

Of these, only the ambient background tasks and some forms of lighting stand out as candidates for remote processing.


And it goes on:
lighting
However, improvements in local rendering power and techniques have made real-time global illumination - realistic without the artifacts and limitations of prebaked lighting - a real possibility without needing servers. Crytek's cascaded light propagation volumes were shown running on a GTX 285 in 2009 and was extremely impressive. A future Battlefield game with destructible environments is going to want an immediate lighting solution as opposed to shadows and lighting updating a few seconds after every change.

So there really isn't much left that the cloud could possibly do.

The benefits of it seem rather insignificant compared to the down side of needing a constant high bandwidth connection, which isn't available to a lot of people.

All of the thing sit COULD do, sound great, the things it will actually be able to do due to technological issues, are rather unimpressive.

khardbored posted...
Well, you're not talking in real world numbers so it's hard to give an accurate reply.
You're also assuming that every single game on the Xbox One will be using the cloud. And that ever single Xbox One will be on-line. You're also saying that there will be tens of millions playing at the same time.


The Azure cloud is not just for Xbox only, it's for all of Microsofts products running on the cloud and for a ton of other companies who pay to utilize it.

Also, a lot of those 300k servers are virtual servers.
I've yet to see a number concerning the ACTUAL amount of servers.
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#25Ramsus082Posted 10/21/2013 3:55:30 PM
Do we want more MMOs? Do we want franchises we're familiar with to go the MMO route? As in, mandatory online connections and forced multiplayer? I mean, some are good, but the way MS has got us talking about the cloud, you'd think we're in the middle of some gaming revolution.

My PC has been offloading tasks like physics and AI to the cloud since Everquest. My PS2 does it with FFXI. It's a great concept, but this has gotten beyond "overhyped" now.
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#26Xeeh_BitzPosted 10/21/2013 4:00:20 PM
khardbored posted...
Well, you're not talking in real world numbers so it's hard to give an accurate reply.
You're also assuming that every single game on the Xbox One will be using the cloud. And that ever single Xbox One will be on-line. You're also saying that there will be tens of millions playing at the same time.


Yes, if the cloud is the future then it should be in a lot of games. Are you suggesting the Xbox One not selling well? 40 million isn't a lot across the world. If it does the same as the 360, that's just half the owners playing at once, if it's around the holiday season when a lot of games launch. Yeah, it is possible to see that much on Live since they would have to be online in order to play their game(Cloud based, no online, no play)

You see, it's different when people has to get online to play a game due to requiring the cloud and people who don't. When you have to be online, it pulls a lot more resources than when the system does not.

So 300k servers for the world that also helps with streaming of content, storage, mp gaming, etc.

It's not going to work well later on unless they add a lot more servers, but really.. there will be only a few games in the history of the Xbone to actually use cloud computing and then it wouldn't even be noticeable.


Here is an example, WoW uses a total of 75,000 cpu cores and over 112.5 TB of ram for its online game. That's just one game where the peak usage is only around 500k total across the world.
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#27khardbored(Topic Creator)Posted 10/21/2013 4:04:27 PM
I think we're missing the point here.

There is absolutely no negative to the cloud. None.
For those of us who do use it, sweet. A nice little bump in X.
For those that don't have the bandwidth, no problem. The games will still run just fine.

As for your quote, it doesn't say that physics can't be handled, nor AI or even lighting. There was a tweet reply, or a quote, somewhere from a dev that said they -are- using the cloud to help offload certain physics calculations. I know, it doesn't mean anything without the quote, but when developers, the ones using it, not sitting on the outside hypothesizing, say that it can do something because they have done, I tend to believe them.

Also, I know the 300k isn't just for gamers. As you said, many other products will be using it. But we're not talking about GB worth of data. In most cases it's going to be less then 10's of MB. It couldn't work otherwise.
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#28Ramsus082Posted 10/21/2013 4:07:41 PM

There is absolutely no negative to the cloud. None.



RIght, and there's absolutely nothing new about it, even for consoles. But the frequency of discussion about the cloud implies that there's something new to talk about. Forced multiplayer and Internet connections probably aren't a universal "positive" thing in the gaming world for everyone, though.
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#29Xeeh_BitzPosted 10/21/2013 4:08:09 PM
khardbored posted...
I think we're missing the point here.

There is absolutely no negative to the cloud. None.
For those of us who do use it, sweet. A nice little bump in X.
For those that don't have the bandwidth, no problem. The games will still run just fine.

As for your quote, it doesn't say that physics can't be handled, nor AI or even lighting. There was a tweet reply, or a quote, somewhere from a dev that said they -are- using the cloud to help offload certain physics calculations. I know, it doesn't mean anything without the quote, but when developers, the ones using it, not sitting on the outside hypothesizing, say that it can do something because they have done, I tend to believe them.

Also, I know the 300k isn't just for gamers. As you said, many other products will be using it. But we're not talking about GB worth of data. In most cases it's going to be less then 10's of MB. It couldn't work otherwise.


I'm not saying the cloud is bad but they cannot use it for extremely complex things because it simply wouldn't have the resources to keep up with a lot of people at once. Imagine if they were trying to run Civ 5 on the cloud and handle the AI on it. That type of AI and processing would cripple it if a million people tried to play it at once.

The only bad thing about it, if they try to push it on single player parts of games where it forces you to be online to play an offline game. Think of Diablo 3 for the PC, if you're not online , you cannot play. If the servers go down, you cannot play.
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#30khardbored(Topic Creator)Posted 10/21/2013 4:10:14 PM
Xeeh_Bitz posted...
khardbored posted...
Well, you're not talking in real world numbers so it's hard to give an accurate reply.
You're also assuming that every single game on the Xbox One will be using the cloud. And that ever single Xbox One will be on-line. You're also saying that there will be tens of millions playing at the same time.


Yes, if the cloud is the future then it should be in a lot of games. Are you suggesting the Xbox One not selling well? 40 million isn't a lot across the world. If it does the same as the 360, that's just half the owners playing at once, if it's around the holiday season when a lot of games launch. Yeah, it is possible to see that much on Live since they would have to be online in order to play their game(Cloud based, no online, no play)

You see, it's different when people has to get online to play a game due to requiring the cloud and people who don't. When you have to be online, it pulls a lot more resources than when the system does not.

So 300k servers for the world that also helps with streaming of content, storage, mp gaming, etc.

It's not going to work well later on unless they add a lot more servers, but really.. there will be only a few games in the history of the Xbone to actually use cloud computing and then it wouldn't even be noticeable.


Here is an example, WoW uses a total of 75,000 cpu cores and over 112.5 TB of ram for its online game. That's just one game where the peak usage is only around 500k total across the world.


There will not be 40 million people playing the Xbox One online at the same time. There will more than likely not be people playing the Xbox One, PS4, WiiU online at the same time.

Nor will the Xbox One sell anymore than a few million units throughout the holidays. Same with the PS4. More like a few million between them. This will obviously change and grow throughout the years and get somewhat closer to those numbers.
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