Cloud Discussion

#11straymatterPosted 10/26/2013 10:37:59 AM
Cloud servers will do amazing things that can't be done on the console itself.

MrSpaM111 posted...
Nobody is saying it wont do what it's supposed to do, it's just most people don't understand what it's supposed to do, and think it's some magic force that will improve the console ten fold. That's what the problem is.

First of all 'The Cloud' is not going to make your games look better than the competition, end of.

People also need to start understanding the cloud services Microsoft are offering, the PS4 is also completely capable of doing all of it, this isn't something exclusive to XBO. In fact 'The Cloud' has been utilised multiple times on the xbox360 and the PS3, this isn't some new technology that's only come about on the next gen consoles.

And this whole argument of "It offloads AI processing to the internet to free up CPU on the console" is also flawed, due to the fact that since the birth of network gaming (were talking DOOM here) the server tells the clients where the enemies and different players are, and also give the AI instructions, that are passed on to the clients. This is also used to say "The last ten people who walked around this corner without jumping got shot, so the next AI bot to go round the corner will jump", that is your 'learning' AI, and multiple games in the past have used this before to improve bots on servers. Yes it offloads the AI to the server, but this is technology developed in the late 80's, and has been used since then for every single network game in existence. It's nothing new.

Microsoft span the 'Power Of The Cloud' gimmick to entice people who have no understanding of cloud computing, or network computing in general, into buying the console.

The sooner people start understanding this, the sooner people might be able to start having some normal discussions on the matter.
So far so good, this is a great discussion, what do you think the cloud can do?
#12MeaglesVPosted 10/26/2013 10:48:37 AM
MrSpaM111 posted...
Nobody is saying it wont do what it's supposed to do, it's just most people don't understand what it's supposed to do, and think it's some magic force that will improve the console ten fold. That's what the problem is.

First of all 'The Cloud' is not going to make your games look better than the competition, end of.

People also need to start understanding the cloud services Microsoft are offering, the PS4 is also completely capable of doing all of it, this isn't something exclusive to XBO. In fact 'The Cloud' has been utilised multiple times on the xbox360 and the PS3, this isn't some new technology that's only come about on the next gen consoles.

And this whole argument of "It offloads AI processing to the internet to free up CPU on the console" is also flawed, due to the fact that since the birth of network gaming (were talking DOOM here) the server tells the clients where the enemies and different players are, and also give the AI instructions, that are passed on to the clients. This is also used to say "The last ten people who walked around this corner without jumping got shot, so the next AI bot to go round the corner will jump", that is your 'learning' AI, and multiple games in the past have used this before to improve bots on servers. Yes it offloads the AI to the server, but this is technology developed in the late 80's, and has been used since then for every single network game in existence. It's nothing new.

Microsoft span the 'Power Of The Cloud' gimmick to entice people who have no understanding of cloud computing, or network computing in general, into buying the console.

The sooner people start understanding this, the sooner people might be able to start having some normal discussions on the matter.


Well I'm iffy on the whole improving graphics thing, but I'm very sure that MS has more cloud functionality than Sony. There are 2 big clouds, Amazon S3 and Azure (owned by guess who?). Also ridiculously expensive.


http://www.nasuni.com/news/press_releases/71-microsoft_windows_azure_ousts_amazon_s3_as_top


Sony is using RackSpace(lol). I know for a fact they are looking for help with cloud computing, at least in San Antonio, TX. Very green in that area.

So when people say Sony has the cloud too, sure they do. But to pretend it's even close to being the same cloud is ridiculous.
#13straymatterPosted 10/26/2013 11:04:44 AM
BigPapi829 posted...
http://videogamesandnews.com/xbox-one-cloud-a-pr-gimmick-or-the-real-deal/

Info on the cloud with all sources linked
1st comment on article is interesting but I don't know if true.

This is a great in depth article! I pulled a few quotes from this.

http://videogamesandnews.com/xbox-one-cloud-a-pr-gimmick-or-the-real-deal/
"The Xbox group came back to us with a way for us to run all of these Titanfall dedicated servers and that lets us push games with more server CPU and higher bandwidth, which lets us have a bigger world, more physics, lots of AI, and potentially a lot more than that!"

"When you look at it. Microsoft and Google are really the only two people who have a “Cloud”. A technical description of a cloud. They have data centers all over the world with tons of fast machines in them and they can slice them up however they want and turn them into virtual machines. And what they have done is exposed that in a very awesome way for Xbox One games. "

If Microsoft’s Cloud is nothing more than a PR Gimmick. Then it has to be one of the largest gimmicks in recorded history. Adding up to a total that goes well beyond $10 Billion so far. It sounds as if this could actually be a system that could provide a lot of flexibility for the future of the Xbox One. And if dedicated servers are available to all developers. That is probably going to be a nice selling point for both game developers and players.

And Developers are already talking about the power of the cloud. One of the year’s most anticipated titles, Ubisoft’s Watch Dogs, the developer just told NowGamer that the Xbox One city will be more dynamic than any other version of the game.

“There are quite a few, obviously there are the graphics but you don’t need me to tell you, but there’s also everything related to the dynamism of the city,” continued Guay. “For example, we’re able to simulate the water in full 3D, if you go on a boat the waves that form will affect other boats. We’re also able to spend more time giving brains to the other people on the streets so that they can basically be smarter, andthere can be more of them. It’s what I call dynamism; basically, the way the city reacts to you, we are able to push further on the Xbox One.”
#14swfGs231Posted 10/26/2013 11:06:52 AM
Sephiroth > Cloud
#15BraxSimeonPosted 10/26/2013 12:08:41 PM
The problem is, "the cloud" is so open as far as different applications, that it's not easy to package into a nice and tidy argument that can get shot down by fan boys.

A) It's hard to say for sure what "the cloud" can do, because smart people come up with new ideas - so dismissing it because you don't know how it applies to the status quo is silly.

B) No one who matters inside the industry is thinking of "the cloud" as primarily a graphics supplement - but this is the first place naysayers go - knocking down a strawman.

C) MS's cloud and Sony's "You can already do this" Cloud are completely different things. MS provides a framework with real hardware willing to handle cpu cycles for you (which is far more than a server connected to a network someplace in Bolivia). Sony says, "Yeah... our box connects to the internet, so go at it if you want" - beyond that Gakai and Azure are totally different services (but, Azure is closer to being able to 'do' Gakai than vice versa)

D) There's a difference between cloud processing and an MMO server and between cloud processing and dedicated MP servers

If you're gut reaction to seeing "Cloud processing" is, "Oh, it's all hype" or "MS sux" you should go ahead and just stop spending any mental processing on the subject - you're not going to be contributing anything. Seriously, if you feel like you have to bash "the cloud" because bashing it's bashing MS - we get it - you bash MS, it's your think. Don't pretend like you have anything to add to a discussion.

For those that have half an understanding of what cloud processing is - there IS potential for some "new stuff" to happen. The sort of thing Forza is claiming to do is a good example (we'll see how it pans out in reality - but this is the kind of concept that isn't possible without a solid framework)

Cloud processing can let you offload cpu / memory from the box you're on. You don't need to have a 300TB hard drive in order to have 300TB of world data, for instance. This opens up possibilities for "dynamic worlds" - not just the cliché term, but actual maps that can be changed in a way that's not possible if all the world data is permanently stored on your local machine. Yes, cloud processing can handle AI - and yes, that's been done in the past - but the sort of framework that Azure provides means that the degree of processing power that CAN be available to you is significantly increased (whether or not, and how, MS allocates those resources is yet to be seen).

The coolest potential of "the cloud" is things we haven't seen yet. That doesn't mean it's going to make every XB1 game magically, or that no one else can do any of this cloud magic - but it's really too bad that so many people have no idea what they are talking about when they try to bash it. You upgrade a GPU a little and people think it's fantastic, you open up online processing in a way that isn't feasible for most developers and you call it hype. 80% of arguments about cloud processing involve completely irrelevant assumptions.
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#16BigPapi829Posted 10/26/2013 2:58:30 PM
BraxSimeon posted...
The problem is, "the cloud" is so open as far as different applications, that it's not easy to package into a nice and tidy argument that can get shot down by fan boys.

A) It's hard to say for sure what "the cloud" can do, because smart people come up with new ideas - so dismissing it because you don't know how it applies to the status quo is silly.

B) No one who matters inside the industry is thinking of "the cloud" as primarily a graphics supplement - but this is the first place naysayers go - knocking down a strawman.

C) MS's cloud and Sony's "You can already do this" Cloud are completely different things. MS provides a framework with real hardware willing to handle cpu cycles for you (which is far more than a server connected to a network someplace in Bolivia). Sony says, "Yeah... our box connects to the internet, so go at it if you want" - beyond that Gakai and Azure are totally different services (but, Azure is closer to being able to 'do' Gakai than vice versa)

D) There's a difference between cloud processing and an MMO server and between cloud processing and dedicated MP servers

If you're gut reaction to seeing "Cloud processing" is, "Oh, it's all hype" or "MS sux" you should go ahead and just stop spending any mental processing on the subject - you're not going to be contributing anything. Seriously, if you feel like you have to bash "the cloud" because bashing it's bashing MS - we get it - you bash MS, it's your think. Don't pretend like you have anything to add to a discussion.

For those that have half an understanding of what cloud processing is - there IS potential for some "new stuff" to happen. The sort of thing Forza is claiming to do is a good example (we'll see how it pans out in reality - but this is the kind of concept that isn't possible without a solid framework)

Cloud processing can let you offload cpu / memory from the box you're on. You don't need to have a 300TB hard drive in order to have 300TB of world data, for instance. This opens up possibilities for "dynamic worlds" - not just the cliché term, but actual maps that can be changed in a way that's not possible if all the world data is permanently stored on your local machine. Yes, cloud processing can handle AI - and yes, that's been done in the past - but the sort of framework that Azure provides means that the degree of processing power that CAN be available to you is significantly increased (whether or not, and how, MS allocates those resources is yet to be seen).

The coolest potential of "the cloud" is things we haven't seen yet. That doesn't mean it's going to make every XB1 game magically, or that no one else can do any of this cloud magic - but it's really too bad that so many people have no idea what they are talking about when they try to bash it. You upgrade a GPU a little and people think it's fantastic, you open up online processing in a way that isn't feasible for most developers and you call it hype. 80% of arguments about cloud processing involve completely irrelevant assumptions.


Awesome post man