sony already tried microsoft's xbox one strategy with the ps3

#61MasteroftheArtsPosted 11/3/2013 8:30:30 PM
jasten posted...
Sony has actually improved lately, oops.


Uh, no they haven't. Actually do a cursory search and you'll quickly realize that Sony is in dire financial straits. Their Market Cap is 19 billion compared to the PS2 days of over 100 billion, their debt-to-asset ratio is almost at 1, meaning that their debtors almost own as much equity in the company as the actual investors, their return on equity is extremely low, and their credit rating is either one step above junk status, or junk status, depending on which ratings agency you ask. By all measurable criteria, they are doing terribly. Oops.

jasten posted...
And the original point is that the Kinect had it's opportunity, it failed. IF people bloody wanted the gimmicky piece of crap and the games it gets, they would have SUPPORTED IT. But o right, it came out, disappeared, wasn't that big of a deal.... o, it's because people were just too stupid the first time.


And once again, instead of responding honestly, you sidestep my argument and restate your already flawed position. I've already sufficiently explained why the kinect didn't do well. It doesn't have a large install base because there aren't enough games to justify a purchase and there aren't enough games to justify a purchase because developers aren't willing to invest time and resources developing for a peripheral that doesn't have a large enough install base. It's a catch 22 that is solved by bundling a kinect with every system which eliminates the uncertainty of the install base for developers. Now instead of understanding the elementary point that I'm making, you ignore it and say: YEAH, BUT IF THEY WANTED IT, THEY WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED IT. All your point does is demonstrate that you either can't understand basic propositional logic or you're willingly choosing not to accept the point. I wonder which one it is...

jasten posted...
You are starting to sound like Microsoft now. People weren't too stupid, they chose not to use the kinect in numbers that warranted any dev wasting money on a failed gimmick.


Oh noes. A random fanboy who is willfully ignoring a point that is damning to his position is calling me a fanboy. Inc: Irony

I never called people stupid, I said they weren't well informed about products which, generally, is true. Oh, and your point is completely without merit. The kinect sold 8 million within the first 60 days which actually put it in the Guinness book of world records as the fastest selling consumer electronics device, and the reviews for the kinect were good to great. This all points to the fact that developers PRIOR TO ITS RELEASE saw the kinect as an extravagance, rather than a successful piece of hardware, which isn't particularly surprising. We're talking about a peripheral released in 2010 (so 5 years into the console's life) at $149 compared to the system's price at the time which was $199. It isn't hard to see why they weren't too optimistic about its showing. Too bad they were wrong. Just like you're wrong.
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#62singhellotakuPosted 11/3/2013 9:51:39 PM
Yeomanly posted...
gumbyxcore99 posted...
microsoft's whole entertainment platform is the same as when sony included a bluray player in the ps3. only sony knew better than to try and pass off the ps3 as a blu-ray player than also played games.


How do you know it has not worked, we know PS3 has sold upwards of 70million units, how many were bought as they are cheap Blu-ray/Netflix box, yet to see a PS3 title sell 30million units in first week (50% of user base if ALL gamers).


Thats all my ps3 was for the majority of its lifetime, a bluray player I could play the occasional exclusive on
#63jastenPosted 11/3/2013 10:01:41 PM
MasteroftheArts posted...
Oh noes. A random fanboy who is willfully ignoring a point that is damning to his position is calling me a fanboy. Inc: Irony

I never called people stupid, I said they weren't well informed about products which, generally, is true. Oh, and your point is completely without merit. The kinect sold 8 million within the first 60 days which actually put it in the Guinness book of world records as the fastest selling consumer electronics device, and the reviews for the kinect were good to great. This all points to the fact that developers PRIOR TO ITS RELEASE saw the kinect as an extravagance, rather than a successful piece of hardware, which isn't particularly surprising. We're talking about a peripheral released in 2010 (so 5 years into the console's life) at $149 compared to the system's price at the time which was $199. It isn't hard to see why they weren't too optimistic about its showing. Too bad they were wrong. Just like you're wrong.


Hmm... fanboy appears! Yeah, cause 360 hasn't been my main platform.... oops, looks like another ousted himself yet again.

Facts are, if the kinect was so great... it would still be selling, have great games, and not be a MAJOR negative against the One... but oops, right have to ignore facts just to uphold some MS honour for some ridiculous reason. The Wii sold great for a few years, then it tanked BECAUSE the gimmick was just a fad! MS and Sony both tried to wide that fad, but it didn't pan out like the WII and Sony at least had the balls admit the mistake and say "okay, it's a outlying gimmick that isn't a main draw...optional". Hell, even Nintendo ditched it... but here MS sits trying to resurrect a long dead horse to ride. Initial sales mean squat when the FANS don't support it.

O and that hat quip about MS was actually about how they handled the windows 8 debacle.. actually having ads that were "you were just too stupid.. let me show you why this is great". But I know I know... all hail the might MS. We bow to your wondrous glory and question not your massive failures recently. Christ... at least be reasonable when you post.
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#64MasteroftheArtsPosted 11/3/2013 11:46:47 PM
jasten posted...
Hmm... fanboy appears! Yeah, cause 360 hasn't been my main platform.... oops, looks like another ousted himself yet again.


Another internet neophyte who doesn't know what the word "fanboy" actually means. Just like the mass number of fools who call people who disagree with their position trolls. Enjoy living in a delusional world where anyone who defends a console is automatically a fanboy. It has no bearing on reality.

jasten posted...
Facts are, if the kinect was so great... it would still be selling, have great games, and not be a MAJOR negative against the One... but oops, right have to ignore facts just to uphold some MS honour for some ridiculous reason.


Facts are, you are consistently ignoring my argument and restating your own flawed thesis because you don't have a response. I've already explained three times now why the original kinect did not do as well as it could and you are consistently ignoring my point because you're intellectually dishonest.


jasten posted...
The Wii sold great for a few years, then it tanked BECAUSE the gimmick was just a fad! MS and Sony both tried to wide that fad, but it didn't pan out like the WII and Sony at least had the balls admit the mistake and say "okay, it's a outlying gimmick that isn't a main draw...optional". Hell, even Nintendo ditched it... but here MS sits trying to resurrect a long dead horse to ride. Initial sales mean squat when the FANS don't support it.


Patently false. The Wii sold great until the second half of 2013.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1309.pdf

The rest is just more of your fanboy theorizing about what Nintendo and Sony were thinking about because you're psychic.


jasten posted...
O and that hat quip about MS was actually about how they handled the windows 8 debacle.. actually having ads that were "you were just too stupid.. let me show you why this is great". But I know I know... all hail the might MS. We bow to your wondrous glory and question not your massive failures recently. Christ... at least be reasonable when you post.


So you admit that you're trying to derail the "discussion", not that there have even been one.

I love how you're telling me to be reasonable when I post when you've literally not said one reasonable thing in our discussion. The reason being that you don't argue with evidence, but with conviction. Your argument about why the kinect failed is so ludicrously wrong that you can't even defend it when pressured to do so. Not to mention that the notion that the kinect failed is laughably absurd considering the circumstances.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/11/microsoft-xbox-360-at-76m-sold-worldwide-kinect-at-24m/

Oh, but I can't wait to hear you restate your original argument because you've got nothing but baseless assumptions and blind fanboy rage. You've used zero sources to defend your claims because there aren't any. It's just a clever narrative you've concocted to try and downplay the kinect.

Since you've got nothing to contribute other than ad hominem, we're done. Feel free to get your last shots rest assured I won't read them.
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"I refuse to prove that I exist" says God. "For proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing..."
#65jastenPosted 11/4/2013 12:09:06 AM
MasteroftheArts posted...
snipping the bs.


Hmmm... continues fanboy ranting despite the fact I support good consoles regardless of company. Continues saying that fans not supporting the kinect beyond launch isn't a reason for the failure... despite no evidence... and going on about dev support (hint, no fan support leads to no dev support, ooops, that pesky logic again). And then calls me out for ad hominem despite immediately and routinely pulling out the fanboy card. You expect me to be sad to not have to deal with this vapid BS anymore?

Good bloody riddance.
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#66BERZERKER17Posted 11/4/2013 1:30:30 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...
Wow, you guys are just making stuff up now. There have no been nearly as many massive installs and zero instance of installs that had to happen everytime you change a CHAPTER in a game. Kojima says a lot of crap. He also thinks Cloud is ridiculously powerful. Do you believe this as well, that Cloud is going to revolutionize games?

After the release, it was pretty much a joke after people broke down what actually took up all the space. Kojima was trying to hype up his own game and claimed how "uncompressed audio with an amazing 7.1 system" being the reason. Sorry but I have a perfectly fine 5.1 speaker system and no one gave a rats ass about 7.1 uncompressed audio. There was far more people concerned with the long installs and the terrible replayability of having to install everytime they went to a level or progressed.

Pretty much a bad joke.

Also, Jasten, what is your game if it is not MGS4? Please tell us because it seems like you are pulling it out of your ass. The installs argument is just horrible. Installs just further confirms that BD size has no value since it can be overcome with installs.


Now what the hell -- I did the full install, and not once after that, did I have to install any other part of the game at all, it was done.
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#67robertadeathPosted 11/4/2013 2:36:52 AM
I knew many people who were excited and bought the kinect. They played it a few times and now it collects dust. The consensus is that the Kinect massively failed. Sure, many people bought it... to discover it's just a worthless gimmick. A lot of 360 fans bought it and were severely disappointed. It adds nothing. Why do you think there's an obscene amount of backlash over the forced inclusion of the kinect 2.0? Fool me once... Etc.
#68DesperateMonkeyPosted 11/4/2013 5:52:26 AM
BERZERKER17 posted...
DesperateMonkey posted...
Wow, you guys are just making stuff up now. There have no been nearly as many massive installs and zero instance of installs that had to happen everytime you change a CHAPTER in a game. Kojima says a lot of crap. He also thinks Cloud is ridiculously powerful. Do you believe this as well, that Cloud is going to revolutionize games?

After the release, it was pretty much a joke after people broke down what actually took up all the space. Kojima was trying to hype up his own game and claimed how "uncompressed audio with an amazing 7.1 system" being the reason. Sorry but I have a perfectly fine 5.1 speaker system and no one gave a rats ass about 7.1 uncompressed audio. There was far more people concerned with the long installs and the terrible replayability of having to install everytime they went to a level or progressed.

Pretty much a bad joke.

Also, Jasten, what is your game if it is not MGS4? Please tell us because it seems like you are pulling it out of your ass. The installs argument is just horrible. Installs just further confirms that BD size has no value since it can be overcome with installs.


Now what the hell -- I did the full install, and not once after that, did I have to install any other part of the game at all, it was done.


Nope, had to install before every chapter and watch Snake go smoking.

@Jasten

Wow, stop embarrassing yourself. The guy provides you with so much evidence and all you do is "lool fanboy cause you counter what I say!"

Your reasoning is childish at best and you've never provided us with anything beyond "this is what I THINK happened!"
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#69jastenPosted 11/4/2013 9:00:28 AM
DesperateMonkey posted...
BERZERKER17 posted...
DesperateMonkey posted...
Wow, you guys are just making stuff up now. There have no been nearly as many massive installs and zero instance of installs that had to happen everytime you change a CHAPTER in a game. Kojima says a lot of crap. He also thinks Cloud is ridiculously powerful. Do you believe this as well, that Cloud is going to revolutionize games?

After the release, it was pretty much a joke after people broke down what actually took up all the space. Kojima was trying to hype up his own game and claimed how "uncompressed audio with an amazing 7.1 system" being the reason. Sorry but I have a perfectly fine 5.1 speaker system and no one gave a rats ass about 7.1 uncompressed audio. There was far more people concerned with the long installs and the terrible replayability of having to install everytime they went to a level or progressed.

Pretty much a bad joke.

Also, Jasten, what is your game if it is not MGS4? Please tell us because it seems like you are pulling it out of your ass. The installs argument is just horrible. Installs just further confirms that BD size has no value since it can be overcome with installs.


Now what the hell -- I did the full install, and not once after that, did I have to install any other part of the game at all, it was done.


Nope, had to install before every chapter and watch Snake go smoking.

@Jasten

Wow, stop embarrassing yourself. The guy provides you with so much evidence and all you do is "lool fanboy cause you counter what I say!"

Your reasoning is childish at best and you've never provided us with anything beyond "this is what I THINK happened!"


Except I did keep refuting his opinionated point about the kinect. But then I wouldn't expect you to understand that either since you couldn't proved a good argument yourself in this topic. Love you you come back after being thoroughly drummed and trying to save some face... if either of you actually had any good arguments about the Kinect, we'd have seen them by now. Instead it's just some fanboy chest thumping.

Face facts... it had it's chance and people choose to move on without it. I have no problem with MS making it an optional buy for the few people that still want one, but the fact that the forced purchase is a huge negative for many gamers is proof enough that the kinect is not beloved or that it added anything most gamers want. If it was such a success and any of its features so beloved... it wouldn't have been shrugged off as it has been by fans. In fact, outside of this Xbox board, I've seen no one clamouring and praising and thumping their chest for the kinect. No one even talked about it til they were forced to buy it if they want the One.
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