There is no power of the cloud

#41DesperateMonkeyPosted 11/4/2013 7:08:59 AM
MrSpaM111 posted...
DesperateMonkey posted...
lilj812 posted...
Outside of dedicated servers (which are also on the PS3 and PS4 and multiplat games). The reason why I say there is no power of the cloud because if there was, we would have seen it by now, wouldn't we have?


Actually, people won't get full access to Cloud features until recently because they've only announced recently that it will be free to all. The only people who have had it available to them up to this point are select partners like Respawn.

The reason we haven't "seen it" is because the console itself isn't released but we already know that Forza and Titanfall are both utilizing it.

Anyone who is ignorant enough to say our internet can't handle it has no idea what they are talking about. Cloud gaming features are essentially what MMOs already do. The issue is that MMOs usually cost money because it costs a lot to rent those servers. MS offers them for free so developers can now choose to add things that were only available to MMOs now because they don't have to worry about buying, renting or maintaining servers.

Thats why Titanfall is going to have integrated AI opponents in the battlefield. Hell they can have as many as they want if its running off the Cloud, like have 16vs16 players and then have 200 AIs in the background.


And yet none of this will improve graphics or processing power, which is what MS tried to tell everybody in the first place.


Which is still irrelevant to the discussion of what it CAN do. Just because you fell for the marketing BS doesn't mean the rest of us did. Trying to hang on to this in order to make the argument that the Cloud doesn't do anything just smells like a desperate fear that MMO features will be entering regular retail games of varying sizes because of the Cloud.
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#42Cowboy082288Posted 11/4/2013 7:52:15 AM
The thing that so many on these boards seem to be completely oblivious about is that what MS is doing with the X1 is actually already being done by google.

https://cloud.google.com/solutions/gaming

https://cloud.google.com/resources/articles/developing-mobile-games-on-google-app-engine-compute-engine

https://developers.google.com/games/services/

http://developer.android.com/distribute/googleplay/spotlight/games.html

http://developer.android.com/training/building-connectivity.html

Now obviously googles focus is mobile gaming, platforms such as iOS (yes googles cloud services are used for games on iOS as well) and Android. MS focus is going to be the X1. MS will tailor their support for X1 console developers and what those guys want. Also MS is apparently doing this at least to a certain extent for free.

People on various gaming forums saying 'cloud is PR BS' or 'powa of da cloudz lol' really just sound stupid and ignorant. Cloud services have been around for awhile now and they have been making their way into supporting mobile games for years. MS is just taking a logical next step by bringing this kind of backend support to their console.

As far as how many ways can cloud services help console gaming? Well it's hard to say exactly what that will look like in 2-3 years but we are already seeing early examples of it being used in games like Forza 5 and Titanfall.

What I think is a very interesting example is a game called Bot-Colony. This is a game coming to the steam store I believe. The hook of the game is that it is supposed to be running a very sophisticated language recognition program on the back end (yes being handled by a cloud computing service). Supposedly it will be sophisticated enough to allow the user client side to freely talk to the 'Bots' in the game. Instead of the traditional dialogue trees we see in games like mass effect.

http://www.botcolony.com/wp-content/media/gamnlp12_submission_3.pdf

An excerpt from a blog on the game:

"We have reason to believe the first 2 episodes of Bot Colony will be available on Vision in early 2013. As a token of appreciation, everybody who signed up for the Beta will be invited to play a week for free we will pick up the cloud server costs. After that, whoever wants to stay in the Beta will have to pay $2.95 per month."
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#43N3xtG3nGam3rPosted 11/4/2013 6:52:06 PM
Cowboy082288 posted...
The thing that so many on these boards seem to be completely oblivious about is that what MS is doing with the X1 is actually already being done by google.

https://cloud.google.com/solutions/gaming

https://cloud.google.com/resources/articles/developing-mobile-games-on-google-app-engine-compute-engine

https://developers.google.com/games/services/

http://developer.android.com/distribute/googleplay/spotlight/games.html

http://developer.android.com/training/building-connectivity.html

Now obviously googles focus is mobile gaming, platforms such as iOS (yes googles cloud services are used for games on iOS as well) and Android. MS focus is going to be the X1. MS will tailor their support for X1 console developers and what those guys want. Also MS is apparently doing this at least to a certain extent for free.

People on various gaming forums saying 'cloud is PR BS' or 'powa of da cloudz lol' really just sound stupid and ignorant. Cloud services have been around for awhile now and they have been making their way into supporting mobile games for years. MS is just taking a logical next step by bringing this kind of backend support to their console.

As far as how many ways can cloud services help console gaming? Well it's hard to say exactly what that will look like in 2-3 years but we are already seeing early examples of it being used in games like Forza 5 and Titanfall.

What I think is a very interesting example is a game called Bot-Colony. This is a game coming to the steam store I believe. The hook of the game is that it is supposed to be running a very sophisticated language recognition program on the back end (yes being handled by a cloud computing service). Supposedly it will be sophisticated enough to allow the user client side to freely talk to the 'Bots' in the game. Instead of the traditional dialogue trees we see in games like mass effect.

http://www.botcolony.com/wp-content/media/gamnlp12_submission_3.pdf

An excerpt from a blog on the game:

"We have reason to believe the first 2 episodes of Bot Colony will be available on Vision in early 2013. As a token of appreciation, everybody who signed up for the Beta will be invited to play a week for free we will pick up the cloud server costs. After that, whoever wants to stay in the Beta will have to pay $2.95 per month."


That sounds sweet. And thanks for posting that . Cloud isn't just storage. It is however widely used for that, which is why people think it can't/won't do anything else. There is literally an infinite amount of different things you could do. Like I said before, we eventually will see very creative new things in gaming when it comes to the cloud.

Also it's worth mentioning, that while the X1 is a standalone piece of hardware, that will never change hardware wise, that isn't the case with the cloud servers. Here 4-5 years down the road, people's internet connections will be faster/better, and if MS wanted to, they could upgrade the servers, and make the machines running the servers more powerful, which in-turn would make the x1 more powerful. Just something that people should take into consideration.
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#44Mr BumpPosted 11/4/2013 7:11:25 PM
The Cloud, in terms of improved game performance, is an utter lie. Even at 1Gb network speeds, it would be too slow for an external computer to take any of the overhead for any computation for on-screen action. It needs to be instant. Or at least the kind of instant that is just a few solder points away. Sure stuff like large crowd AI might be off loaded to the cloud, although you then run the risk of introducing lag into a single player game - hardly ideal!
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#45BraxSimeonPosted 11/4/2013 8:05:58 PM
Another one of these: "I don't see better graphics so the cloud isn't real" conversations...

This has got to be the "all we care about is a faster GPU" generation of consoles. There's more to innovation than pushing more pixels per second, and there's more to games than the real-time calculations...

Listen, if you're limited to local processing, then you can't really employ any routines that would take 10 seconds of local processing. However, if you have access to cloud processing that you can offload data processing tasks to, then you open up new options. I love how many people can live with Gakai offloading ALL GRAPHICS PROCESSING but can't fathom anything outside of dedicated and MMO servers for any other cloud processing.

It just takes getting your head out of "internet slow. no graphics from cloud. me no believe." mode. If your perspective is limited to Current Tech-Only Faster, than you're not going to understand cloud processing until someone smarter than you has a few opportunities to find new ways to work in a new environment that includes ready access to cloud processing.
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#46LICKWIDPAlNPosted 11/4/2013 8:08:15 PM
ThatLaoGuy posted...
yes, for something that was announced since the reveal of the xbone, since it isn't in effect now and the console runs like trash, you can safely assume it's all bs.


Been saying this since the reveal that it was BS. Bots got taken for a ride.
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#47LordElohimPosted 11/4/2013 8:34:22 PM
The problem is, that since Microsoft ditched the always online requirement, usage of the cloud is going to be seen primarily in online multiplayer, perhaps even exclusively. A developer won't program a single player game to process as much as it can in the cloud, if the developer has no guarantee that every player will be using the cloud. That is only a guarantee for multiplayer games. It's possible there may not be any single payer games using the cloud.

Mostly unrelated, but this has been bugging me the whole topic: where do you live, ThatLaoGuy? I am guessing a fairly small town? I pay $80 a month and get 80 mb/s, the idea of $80 a month for 30mb/s seems way insane to me.
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#48HeracylostPosted 11/4/2013 8:45:18 PM
MS said power of the cloud, cuz they knew no one knew what they were talking about. Just assumed it would be awesome.

They fooled ya. :)
#49Xeeh_BitzPosted 11/4/2013 8:47:49 PM
I wouldn't put much trust into Microsoft's cloud, if games require it. It's just a mater of time before they take it down and you'll never get to play them again. Hell, they're removing GFWL next year and it's going to make a lot of my games completely worthless unless they remove the DRM
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#50DesperateMonkeyPosted 11/4/2013 9:16:16 PM
Thats pretty ignorant. Cloud is less likely to go down compared to P2P hosted games or PSN. Not only will Cloud support dedicated servers, because its based on such a large part of MS's operations, it will most likely operate indefinitely and have to close down games way way later since there really is absolutely no reason to close down a game when it takes almost no server power to just keep it open.
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