I hate having to put discs in to play.

#141RyuuHou25Posted 11/27/2013 2:24:20 AM
GotTruth posted...
".....You could sell your organs, there would be consequences such as....well, needing those things to continue living for one."
That's why I mention entering into a contract that takes effect only after one dies.

"Even if you sold ripped movies(ILLEGAL), you still need to have the disc. You own that disc.(YOU sure DO) You don't own what's on it(yes you DO, but ONLY that ONE copy\ that is on THE DISC), it's illegal(no its not as long as you are selling the DISC), but you can still sell it and if you get caught, deal with the consequences, again.


Oh please explain how USED movie/CD/Record stores operate then........


Uh, no, if I download something illegally, burn it onto a disc, I don't own what's on the disc. I own the disc, and that's it.

Well, really simple, they pay money to people, ownership transfers to them, they sell it.

Do you even know what the hell you're arguing anymore?
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PSN ID: RyuuHou24
"I never said that....and even if I said it, I never said it" - Dr Peter Venkman RGB http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liGiTVdVu1A
#142GotTruthPosted 11/27/2013 2:24:41 AM
ShuraYukihime posted...
RingsOfUranus posted...
...To clear this up right quick. Your legal ownership is not determined by your legal ability to sell your property. Those two things are not inclusive of one another. You can indeed own things that you are not able to sell. You do not own your body because one can not be purchased in the first place. Your ability to disperse items is unrelated to whether or not they legally belong to you. Redistribution of owned property is prohibited in a lot of scenarios, especially when you enter the initial purchase agreeing to not resell the item. That is an agreement between you and the party from which you purchased it.



However this does not apply to video games. Why? Because EULA agreements hold up like, never in court. Why? Because you do not enter the agreement before purchasing the product. You don't click 'accept the terms and conditions' until you have already purchased the item. The item you are unable to legally return because of the exact agreement you are accepting. This is not a legitimate legal practice, and is why EULAs are not legally binding agreements or documentation. Now, if they made you sign the EULA at the register, before you rendered any payment, that would be a different matter- They'd have you there. This is why digital downloads are far more tricky, because you generally are made aware of these agreements before you purchase the game.


Also the guy that types in caps lock for random words, is a known troll. He's actually being mildly convincing here, but he's usually off the wall. Just an FYI.


Thanks for the heads up.



ALL of THAT ONLY pertains to DIGITAL.

http://www.gamefront.com/gamers-rejoice-scotus-upholds-first-sale-doctrine/
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You know they call it main-stream? Its because a stream is shallow.
GT: BuzzKillingt0n
#143gameplayer6458Posted 11/27/2013 2:31:24 AM
I've been under a rock in Microsoft news, but you have to install the game off your disc entirely to play it, and then still put the disc in? I heard they reversed the DRM (I don't even know what that stands for) but I also heard you still have to connect to the internet ever so often to play it.

(flame shield, activate)
And why exactly are people buying these? Are there even any good exclusives besides Halo?

Otherwise, I'm going to do exactly what I did last gen, buy an underpowered console, and defend Zelda and Mario, and whine when the good third-party games don't even consider coming to it(we have Assassin's Creed now. That's a start).
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3DS FC: 3437-3552-3000; Name on everything: Gameplayer6458
#144GotTruthPosted 11/27/2013 2:33:56 AM(edited)
"Uh, no, if I download something illegally, burn it onto a disc, I don't own what's on the disc. I own the disc, and that's it.

Well, really simple, they pay money to people, ownership transfers to them, they sell it.

Do you even know what the hell you're arguing anymore?"

You committed the Crime of Precedence(downloading illegally) then committed Copyright infringement(another crime) by making additional copies of that software.

I actually think we are in more agreement than disagreement.


I BUY a GAME/Movie/MusicCD or Record at WHEREVER. I OWN the Disc AND its Contents. I may NOT make NEW copies of the content, but I MAY resell, trade, or just give it away if I CHOOSE.

The Supreme Court has affirmed this in its ruling on the Legal Doctrine of First Sale. and YES it applies to ALL Disc Based Media.........including VIDEO GAMES... go read the 50+ page decision if you don't believe me.

Digital DOES NOT have that same Consumer Protections. That's my only real point in all this, that you simpley do NOT have any Rights of Ownership with Digital Content as it can be TAKEN from you at anytime for any reason they decide to give you at the time.
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You know they call it main-stream? Its because a stream is shallow.
GT: BuzzKillingt0n
#145GotTruthPosted 11/27/2013 2:37:47 AM(edited)
wow, you call me a "troll" for simply disagreeing with you and being able to articulate and supply corroborating information on my opinions?

So do just label anyone engaged in debate with a "troll" when it suits you?

BTW, CAPITALIZATION is intended to ad EMPHISIS to words when/where needed. This is fifth grade remedial English stuff.....
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You know they call it main-stream? Its because a stream is shallow.
GT: BuzzKillingt0n
#146RingsOfUranusPosted 11/27/2013 2:36:47 AM
GotTruth posted...
ShuraYukihime posted...
RingsOfUranus posted...
...To clear this up right quick. Your legal ownership is not determined by your legal ability to sell your property. Those two things are not inclusive of one another. You can indeed own things that you are not able to sell. You do not own your body because one can not be purchased in the first place. Your ability to disperse items is unrelated to whether or not they legally belong to you. Redistribution of owned property is prohibited in a lot of scenarios, especially when you enter the initial purchase agreeing to not resell the item. That is an agreement between you and the party from which you purchased it.



However this does not apply to video games. Why? Because EULA agreements hold up like, never in court. Why? Because you do not enter the agreement before purchasing the product. You don't click 'accept the terms and conditions' until you have already purchased the item. The item you are unable to legally return because of the exact agreement you are accepting. This is not a legitimate legal practice, and is why EULAs are not legally binding agreements or documentation. Now, if they made you sign the EULA at the register, before you rendered any payment, that would be a different matter- They'd have you there. This is why digital downloads are far more tricky, because you generally are made aware of these agreements before you purchase the game.


Also the guy that types in caps lock for random words, is a known troll. He's actually being mildly convincing here, but he's usually off the wall. Just an FYI.


Thanks for the heads up.



ALL of THAT ONLY pertains to DIGITAL.

http://www.gamefront.com/gamers-rejoice-scotus-upholds-first-sale-doctrine/


Re-read. Troll correctly. You clearly don't know what I actually just said, because you agreed with it. The part you are actively disagreeing with in this thread is that you should be able to sell your body parts because you own your body, which is asinine in and of itself. The second paragraph, regarding video game ownership, you would agree with. I just allocated some information to the topic that you were unable to present. You can go now, grown ups are here.
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Official Gengar of the Pokemon X board
"I'm excited to see what don't has for the ps4" -HomieKnockout
#147GotTruthPosted 11/27/2013 2:46:35 AM(edited)
Funny, 32 here.
For the RECORD; You can NOT sell your body because the Government(the sole monopoly on the use of FORCE) says you cannot. Actually MOST ToS when you read them say you will not make additional Copies available. They have been changing the language in anticipation of First Sale ruling for the past 3-4 years. With the decision as it is they make no consumer protections for DIGITAL Media, hence you have no OWNERSHIP Rights on Digital Media. Whish is what I see to be the driving force for this push for ALL DIGITAL.
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You know they call it main-stream? Its because a stream is shallow.
GT: BuzzKillingt0n
#148mjc0961Posted 11/27/2013 2:49:14 AM
Foxx3k posted...
mfv12979 posted...
New generation of gamers are getting lazier and lazier. They want everything to be spoon fed for them.. Always complaining about nothing.


"I hate progress! Progress is lazy! I want nothing to change ever because waaaaah!" - Silly people like you & people like you.


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/131/351/eb6.jpg?1307463786
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sirtonne posted...
This topic is so stupid I had to slap my wife.
#149RingsOfUranusPosted 11/27/2013 3:00:27 AM
GotTruth posted...
Funny, 32 here.
For the RECORD; You can NOT sell your body because the Government(the sole monopoly on the use of FORCE) says you cannot. Actually MOST ToS when you read them say you will not make additional Copies available. They have been changing the language in anticipation of First Sale ruling for the past 3-4 years. With the decision as it is they make no consumer protections for DIGITAL Media, hence you have no OWNERSHIP Rights on Digital Media. Whish is what I see to be the driving force for this push for ALL DIGITAL.


Yeah, the same method of control that prevents selling cigarettes to four-year-olds. There are pretty good reasons you can not sell organs. It's generally illegal to sell things that have a very high chance of immediately killing either party. It's very difficult to take legal action for selling a faulty product, when the seller is deceased. "Sure, you can have my liver when I die. It's perfectly healthy...................now." Derp.


Anyway, the second part. Like I said, ToS are not legally binding contracts when you enter them after your money has been spent; IE, the case of physical video game discs. However, copyright laws do prohibit you from copying media, selling your own copy is not illegal, ever.
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Official Gengar of the Pokemon X board
"I'm excited to see what don't has for the ps4" -HomieKnockout
#150GotTruthPosted 11/27/2013 3:17:17 AM
RingsOfUranus posted....
"Yeah, the same method of control that prevents selling cigarettes to four-year-olds. There are pretty good reasons you can not sell organs. It's generally illegal to sell things that have a very high chance of immediately killing either party. It's very difficult to take legal action for selling a faulty product, when the seller is deceased. "Sure, you can have my liver when I die. It's perfectly healthy...................now." Derp."


"Anyway, the second part. Like I said, ToS are not legally binding contracts when you enter them after your money has been spent; IE, the case of physical video game discs. However, copyright laws do prohibit you from copying media, selling your own copy is not illegal, ever."

^On this we are in 100% agreement- Likewise as I have previously stated I feel the "Digital Push" by MS and Sony(though many a bronie pony will never admit it) is to kill The Secondhand Market.

I take exception though with your refuse to acknowledge I stated things like lungs, liver, pancreas, heart, brain, ect....would only be able to be sold by contract for retrieval after your deceased for medical research NOT for Transfer. Also there would be check-ups and verification processes built into the deal, fail a check up and you have to give back the $. It in YOUR interest to maintain your end of the deal. Medical Research Companies would JUMP at the opportunity. I healthy adult CAN and DO give up kidney ALL the time. I would prefer to be compensated for mine. Same goes for Hair, Skin, sperm, Eggs, ect...things that cold be taken in amounts NOW. Not very long ago it was still legal to sell blood, hell you can still sell Blood Plasma. Anyway we are getting off track and into highly metaphysical debate territory here.
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You know they call it main-stream? Its because a stream is shallow.
GT: BuzzKillingt0n