Microsoft Takes On NSA With Three New Privacy Features

#91WeirdShroomPosted 12/7/2013 6:26:21 AM
I'm curious, for those of you truly worried about this....what information do you think they are looking to gather? I mean...this is a game console, hooked to your TV set. What do you guys do in front of your TV that you think anyone, let alone the NSA, would care about? Lets just say for argument's sake they are recording everything you say and all the video. What are you doing that they would care about?

I dunno about you but the only thing I do that anyone would remotely give a crap about is smoke pot....but that's legal here in Washington so eh.
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#92SoulTrapperPosted 12/7/2013 6:45:10 AM
Evel138 posted...

Because they're hopelessly delusional.

Look, we've more than gone over the "possibility" game. Lotta "possibilities" in this big wide world. Its "possible" that we might take a step outside and be killed by a falling meteor.....and then not a god damn bit of this would matter anyway.

Again, FACTS are one thing. It may be a "fact" that 5 million ppl are being "tracked". The conclusions of which are being drawn here (some to laughably cartoonish proportions) are something entirely different.


You left out half my post:

They shouldn't have an interest in the location of 5 billion records of whereabouts either, yet they record them as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-tracking-cellphone-locations-worldwide-snowden-documents-show/2013/12/04/5492873a-5cf2-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_story.html

The thing here is that you know that they can use the kinect for this purpose, but you don't think they will.
Other people here know they can and do think they will.

Why? Simply because they can.
They don't have a good reason for tracking 5 billion, either, yet they do it simply because they can and it isn't illegal.
They do it because they might possibly be able to identify unknown associates of intelligence targets.

Why would they not do the same thing with the kinect data? They could possibly record conversations by unknown associates of intelligence targets with that as well.

The problem is that they are collecting data from random people already, why would they not use the data they can gather with the kinect?


5 BILLION records of whereabouts daily, not million.

So you agree they could use the kinect to gather data, you agree they gather data for no real reason and yet you don't have an answer as to why they wouldn't collect data from the kinect despite having the means and the incentive.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.
#93Evel138Posted 12/7/2013 6:55:06 AM
"For no real reason" is an " incentive"? That seems logical.

I think the horse is just drinking a bit too much of the koolaid tbqh.
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#94TheApd_ReturnsPosted 12/7/2013 6:57:09 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#95TheApd_ReturnsPosted 12/7/2013 7:20:54 AM(edited)
SoulTrapper posted...

They don't have a good reason for tracking 5 billion,


random internet user has more of a clue as to how to run an effective intelligence operation than an organization that has essentially been around for 90 years.

do you get the feeling youre not getting the full context when youre getting 20% of your facts from leaked documents and 80% from hyperbole of the media and a sysadmin contractor who planned to leak documents before he even started working at the NSA, and had a whole 2 months of experience before he started downloading every powerpoint he could without any actual hands-on experience with the programs and offices?

or do you really think there's a general and a bunch of suits sitting around thinking, "how can we further monitor americans indiscriminately today"? even when the leaked documents (and honest media reporting that goes purely off the leaked documents and not Snowden's hyperbolic 'explanations') themselves demonstrate that any actual reporting is, by the numbers, focused on foreign governments, foreign militaries, insurgents, terrorists, and cartels, in that order?

the biggest example of stupidity i saw was the "700 million french phone calls monitored in a month". the hyperventilators made it seem like there is rampant spying on random French civilians. if the NSA collected purely leadership/military phone calls in France, they would easily meet that 700 million a month quota. the next point people bring up is, b-b-b-but France is the US's ally. do some homework, and tell me who helped the British in the War of 1812, and opposed us in many conflicts through the 19th century. tell me which major European nation was not part of NATO for most of the cold war. tell me which country provided nuclear materials to Iraq and Syria. my point is, from an academic point of view, there is no such thing as an absolute, permanent ally, and even those that a country has today are still competitors in many aspects.

the only thing that should honestly be controversial about this is the government's idiotic messaging. the NSA always has been and will be an institution designed primarily to exploit intelligence gaps in other countries and to support military planning with both strategic and tactical intelligence. when this whole scandal came up, they just said "lol its for stopping terrorists dont worry", which is just about the worst possible response to a nation of emotional extended-adolescence mouthbreathers that have all read 1984 in high school English class.

considering that approximately half the NSA is military, and the other civilian half has a large number of people coming from prior military service, the concern that there is some Stasi-esque internal political surveillance organ in place is a little ridiculous (neverminding that, again, the leaked documents themselves ironically confirm that most of the actual reporting is focused on afghanistan/pakistan/world powers). the fact that it took a disgruntled manchild to "open the lid", rather than one of the tens of thousands of military members, which are statistically more prone to libertarian beliefs than the general populace, speaks to idea that you're really only seeing one side of the story.
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#96SoulTrapperPosted 12/7/2013 8:08:13 AM
Evel138 posted...
"For no real reason" is an " incentive"? That seems logical.

I think the horse is just drinking a bit too much of the koolaid tbqh.


It is my opinion that there is no real reason for why they're doing, their reason is in my post, which you seem to ignore:

They don't have a good reason for tracking 5 billion, either, yet they do it simply because they can and it isn't illegal.
They do it because they might possibly be able to identify unknown associates of intelligence targets.

So you agree they could use the kinect to gather data, you agree they gather data for no real reason and yet you don't have an answer as to why they wouldn't collect data from the kinect despite having the means and the incentive.
#97goatthiefPosted 12/7/2013 8:12:14 AM
The best way to combat the NSA is to not buy an XBone. Microsoft may take a staunch public stance against the snooping but their past actions prove that they will roll over for the NSA when asked.
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#98SoulTrapperPosted 12/7/2013 8:13:25 AM
TheApd_Returns posted...

random internet user has more of a clue as to how to run an effective intelligence operation than an organization that has essentially been around for 90 years.

do you get the feeling youre not getting the full context when youre getting 20% of your facts from leaked documents and 80% from hyperbole of the media and a sysadmin contractor who planned to leak documents before he even started working at the NSA, and had a whole 2 months of experience before he started downloading every powerpoint he could without any actual hands-on experience with the programs and offices?

or do you really think there's a general and a bunch of suits sitting around thinking, "how can we further monitor americans indiscriminately today"? even when the leaked documents (and honest media reporting that goes purely off the leaked documents and not Snowden's hyperbolic 'explanations') themselves demonstrate that any actual reporting is, by the numbers, focused on foreign governments, foreign militaries, insurgents, terrorists, and cartels, in that order?

the biggest example of stupidity i saw was the "700 million french phone calls monitored in a month". the hyperventilators made it seem like there is rampant spying on random French civilians. if the NSA collected purely leadership/military phone calls in France, they would easily meet that 700 million a month quota. the next point people bring up is, b-b-b-but France is the US's ally. do some homework, and tell me who helped the British in the War of 1812, and opposed us in many conflicts through the 19th century. tell me which major European nation was not part of NATO for most of the cold war. tell me which country provided nuclear materials to Iraq and Syria. my point is, from an academic point of view, there is no such thing as an absolute, permanent ally, and even those that a country has today are still competitors in many aspects.

the only thing that should honestly be controversial about this is the government's idiotic messaging. the NSA always has been and will be an institution designed primarily to exploit intelligence gaps in other countries and to support military planning with both strategic and tactical intelligence. when this whole scandal came up, they just said "lol its for stopping terrorists dont worry", which is just about the worst possible response to a nation of emotional extended-adolescence mouthbreathers that have all read 1984 in high school English class.

considering that approximately half the NSA is military, and the other civilian half has a large number of people coming from prior military service, the concern that there is some Stasi-esque internal political surveillance organ in place is a little ridiculous (neverminding that, again, the leaked documents themselves ironically confirm that most of the actual reporting is focused on afghanistan/pakistan/world powers). the fact that it took a disgruntled manchild to "open the lid", rather than one of the tens of thousands of military members, which are statistically more prone to libertarian beliefs than the general populace, speaks to idea that you're really only seeing one side of the story.


So you're saying those 5 BILLION DAILY whereabout reports are only for suspects?

You don't think them asking these whereabouts for ANY American leaving the country is a bit much?

The only thing you do is speculate around the facts, which is the exact same thing everyone else here is doing. Except you think they're the good guys, while I think they have no business with any of that stuff.

More people die every year due to drunk driving than due to terrorist attacks in America, yet they don't force cars with alcohol locks, even though this would be cheaper, less invasive of people's privacy and cost a lot less.
If you think the spying has anything to do with your safety, you're an idiot.
#99coltsfan4ever31Posted 12/7/2013 8:34:05 AM
Anybody that actually believes MS cares about consumer's privacy is an idiot.
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#100Evel138Posted 12/7/2013 9:38:49 AM
TheApd_Returns posted...
SoulTrapper posted...

They don't have a good reason for tracking 5 billion,


random internet user has more of a clue as to how to run an effective intelligence operation than an organization that has essentially been around for 90 years.

do you get the feeling youre not getting the full context when youre getting 20% of your facts from leaked documents and 80% from hyperbole of the media and a sysadmin contractor who planned to leak documents before he even started working at the NSA, and had a whole 2 months of experience before he started downloading every powerpoint he could without any actual hands-on experience with the programs and offices?

or do you really think there's a general and a bunch of suits sitting around thinking, "how can we further monitor americans indiscriminately today"? even when the leaked documents (and honest media reporting that goes purely off the leaked documents and not Snowden's hyperbolic 'explanations') themselves demonstrate that any actual reporting is, by the numbers, focused on foreign governments, foreign militaries, insurgents, terrorists, and cartels, in that order?

the biggest example of stupidity i saw was the "700 million french phone calls monitored in a month". the hyperventilators made it seem like there is rampant spying on random French civilians. if the NSA collected purely leadership/military phone calls in France, they would easily meet that 700 million a month quota. the next point people bring up is, b-b-b-but France is the US's ally. do some homework, and tell me who helped the British in the War of 1812, and opposed us in many conflicts through the 19th century. tell me which major European nation was not part of NATO for most of the cold war. tell me which country provided nuclear materials to Iraq and Syria. my point is, from an academic point of view, there is no such thing as an absolute, permanent ally, and even those that a country has today are still competitors in many aspects.

the only thing that should honestly be controversial about this is the government's idiotic messaging. the NSA always has been and will be an institution designed primarily to exploit intelligence gaps in other countries and to support military planning with both strategic and tactical intelligence. when this whole scandal came up, they just said "lol its for stopping terrorists dont worry", which is just about the worst possible response to a nation of emotional extended-adolescence mouthbreathers that have all read 1984 in high school English class.

considering that approximately half the NSA is military, and the other civilian half has a large number of people coming from prior military service, the concern that there is some Stasi-esque internal political surveillance organ in place is a little ridiculous (neverminding that, again, the leaked documents themselves ironically confirm that most of the actual reporting is focused on afghanistan/pakistan/world powers). the fact that it took a disgruntled manchild to "open the lid", rather than one of the tens of thousands of military members, which are statistically more prone to libertarian beliefs than the general populace, speaks to idea that you're really only seeing one side of the story.


THANK YOU.

At least there is some other functioning gray matter on this subject. Hell, just a coherent logic is a big step up from what most of these guys (that believe in a bogeyman) can surmise.
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