NSA has their paws all over xbox live. Privacy fail.

#101SorbetowulfPosted 12/15/2013 8:18:06 AM(edited)
SoulTrapper posted...
Sorbetowulf posted...

You're quoting the District Court's decision, friend. Not the 6th District Court of Appeal's decision, in which they threw out the District Court's decision for lack of jurisdiction. Last page.

Right Again. (Lights a smoke).


And what does that leave?

Even if there is (because I know there is and what you're referring to is the Bush administration filing an appeal and winning) it means Microsoft was giving the NSA info without ever trying to fight against it and before this was decided in court.

Qwest never gave any info to the NSA and they didn't do so until 2010, when they were taken over.
Microsoft could have done the same, they chose not to.


SoulTrapper Sez:
"Even if I'm wrong, and I know I am..."

Microsoft was probably operating on the basis of the 1972 court decision, quoted ages ago. Don't forget, they had already suffered a lot of other court cases against the government regarding other, non-related subjects.

Perhaps their lawyers had thoroughly studied laws, and suggested that the 1972 court decision was relevant enough that fighting it would be difficult? It certainly turned out to be for Qwest, since the Court of Appeal declared that there was no jurisdiction for the case they did win.

I'm sure their pockets were deep enough they could get legal advice from any number of retired judges at the time to weigh their chances.

Your last paragraph:

"Qwest never gave any info to the NSA and didn't do so until 2010, when they were taken over over by CenturyLink and continued to operate as Qwest until August 2011."
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GT: NE OBL1V1SCAR1S
#102SorbetowulfPosted 12/15/2013 8:14:06 AM
SoulTrapper posted...

Sorbetowulf posted...
Unfortunately, the space I have left remaining within this post is limited. Both companies privacy policies are not hard to find. I've posted links to both on other threads, and quoted the relevant sections.

If you want to challenge my knowledge or disbelieve my credibility, anyone reading this post can inbox me and I will supply said privacy policies with direct quotes and citations as needed. I'm getting tired of doing everyone's homework for them though.


Post it, because I know you're full of crap.

You haven't provided a shred of evidence for your claims, quite the opposite actually.
You have no credibility.


I said I'd post this later, but since you're so bound and determined for me to blow you out of the water again, here you go. Complete with links.

Microsoft Privacy Policy
http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-gb/fullnotice.mspx#EZB

"We may access or disclose information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to: (a) comply with the law or respond to lawful requests or legal process;"


Sony Entertainment Network Privacy Policy
http://www.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/ca-en/privacy-policy/

"We may share your information, including your personal information, with other parties as follows:
...
Law Enforcement, Judicial, Administrative, or Regulatory Disclosures. When we believe in good faith that the law requires disclosure or that disclosure is necessary to protect or enforce the rights, property, safety, or security of ourselves or others."


Keeping track?

Microsoft: "We'll share information with the law when we must comply with the law or respond to lawful requests."

Sony: "We'll share information with the law when we think that it's required".

Which is exactly what I said.

So you know I'm full of crap? Hmm. Indeed.

You know nothing.
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GT: NE OBL1V1SCAR1S
#103SorbetowulfPosted 12/15/2013 8:16:24 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#104DvoloS88Posted 12/15/2013 8:18:56 AM
zero_or_d1e posted...
Topic.

http://benswann.com/guess-which-hot-christmas-game-console-the-nsa-is-hacking-into/


As well as your cell phone, home phone, texts, emails and computer games... Give it up you insecure little boys. Your credit card is much safer under xbox live than psn so where's that topic?
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Microsoft fans and Sony fans, can't we all just get along?...
#105SoulTrapperPosted 12/15/2013 9:35:17 AM
Sorbetowulf posted...

SoulTrapper Sez:
"Even if I'm wrong, and I know I am..."


I'm not wrong at all and you fail to back up your claims.


My claim is that Qwest never shared any info with the NSA, so Microsoft had no reason to do so either.


You failed to back up your claim about the supreme court ruling, so I saved myself some time and backed this up myself, so I can lead you to the next part of my argumentation.

(I usually enjoy toying with my "opponents", but I have little time today, so I'll speed it up)

Microsoft was probably operating on the basis of the 1972 court decision, quoted ages ago. Don't forget, they had already suffered a lot of other court cases against the government regarding other, non-related subjects.

Perhaps their lawyers had thoroughly studied laws, and suggested that the 1972 court decision was relevant enough that fighting it would be difficult? It certainly turned out to be for Qwest, since the Court of Appeal declared that there was no jurisdiction for the case they did win.

I'm sure their pockets were deep enough they could get legal advice from any number of retired judges at the time to weigh their chances.


And what would be the result of Microsoft not complying with this court order?
What was the result for Qwest?

A fine and the loss of some government contracts.

That's right: the only thing that would have happened to Microsoft (or google, etc) if they didn't comply, is that they would loose some money.

Imagine the horror: Microsoft, a billion dollar corporation having to pay a fine of at most a few million dollars!
Much better to give away people's private data, right?


Your last paragraph:

"Qwest never gave any info to the NSA and didn't do so until 2010, when they were taken over over by CenturyLink and continued to operate as Qwest until August 2011."


The name remained, the company wasn't Qwest anymore.
You get my point, the fact that you choose to answer like that shows you have no good answer.

Qwest never gave away any data until they were taken over, Microsoft had no reason to do so, either.
#106SoulTrapperPosted 12/15/2013 10:03:26 AM(edited)
Sorbetowulf posted...

Microsoft Privacy Policy
http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-gb/fullnotice.mspx#EZB

"We may access or disclose information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to: (a) comply with the law or respond to lawful requests or legal process;"

Sony Entertainment Network Privacy Policy
http://www.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/ca-en/privacy-policy/

"We may share your information, including your personal information, with other parties as follows:
...
Law Enforcement, Judicial, Administrative, or Regulatory Disclosures. When we believe in good faith that the law requires disclosure or that disclosure is necessary to protect or enforce the rights, property, safety, or security of ourselves or others."


Keeping track?

Microsoft: "We'll share information with the law when we must comply with the law or respond to lawful requests."

Sony: "We'll share information with the law when we think that it's required".

Which is exactly what I said.

So you know I'm full of crap? Hmm. Indeed.

You know nothing.


I forgot it had been updated last month, before that it said the exact same thing as the Sony ToU.

This is what it used to say:


"Your privacy is important to us. We collect certain information about you to operate and provide the Services. We may also automatically upload information about your computer, your use of the Services, and Services' performance as part of the Services. We use and protect that information as described in the Privacy Statement available at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=259655 and the Windows Phone Privacy Statement available at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=247437, and their successors. In particular, we may access or disclose information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to: (a) comply with the law or respond to lawful requests or legal process; (b) protect the rights or property of Microsoft or our customers, including the enforcement of our agreements or policies governing your use of the Services; and (c) act on a good faith belief that such access or disclosure is necessary to protect the personal safety of Microsoft employees, customers, or the public.

So I was wrong there, my apologies.

That's the thing with Terms of Service and privacy statements, though: they can change at any time without a real notice being given.


Edit:

Scratch that, it still says the exact same thing:

We also may share or disclose personal information, including the content of your communications:

To comply with the law or respond to legal process or lawful requests, including from law enforcement and government agencies.
To protect the rights or property of Microsoft or our customers, including enforcing the terms governing your use of the services.
To act on a good faith belief that access or disclosure is necessary to protect the personal safety of Microsoft employees, customers or the public.


Which is the exact same thing.

Once again, you're wrong.
#107Emerald_MeliosPosted 12/19/2013 4:48:08 AM
This NSA debacle has some delightful schadenfreude icing on it.
#108RogerTritonHOPEPosted 12/19/2013 5:06:42 AM
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#109A_Hairy_WafflePosted 12/19/2013 5:12:26 AM
Just wait until the Microsoft Kinect-Ultra ray is put to use.
#110embrandedonePosted 12/21/2013 12:56:55 AM
MS sheeple at it again ITT
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An all digital future is readily available for PS4. If you wish to download your entire library digitally, you can and its without the anti-consumer bullcrap.