Why did MS uses DDR3 ram?

#21xcmon3yx2Posted 12/30/2013 11:42:16 AM
ZenGamer64 posted...
Why not the more powerful DDR5 like Sony used is the PS4?


GDDR5 =/= DDR5
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#22ChancoPosted 12/30/2013 11:43:08 AM
I think most people can (or at least should) agree that the Xbox 360 was a better design than the PS3. Some talk about theoretical advantages the PS3 has if moon is rising in venus and the tulips are in bloom, but as simple as eggs is eggs, the 360 was a better design than the PS3. It featured a fast multi-core processor, unified memory and a sophisticated GPU with on dye super fast ram (don't forget the PS2 had on dye super fast ram too, that was the main reason the PS3 couldn't emulate the PS2 in software). The 360 also had really good internal bandwidth.

If you look at the XBone it really is a continuation of the 360 design. A powerful multi-core processor, unified memory, a sophisticated GPU with on dye super fast ram. It's the 360 turned up to 11. After all, if a design isn't broken (no RROD comments......) then why fix it?

The PS3 by comparison was an absolute mess. Don't forget, the original design was for a system with 256mb of Ram, no GPU and twin Cell processors. Fairly late into the development cycle Sony realised the twin Cell design wasn't going to work (probably due to cost, although some argue that it was too different a design to dump on developers, but we'll never know). Anyway, fairly late in the day, a not particularly brilliant GPU was shoe horned into the design. So now, instead of the original rather elegant design, we had a system with only a single core (the SPEs are DSPs not cores) a rather poor GPU, a split memory model and internal bandwidth issues because of the late change in internals. The split memory model is one of the main reasons for lower quality textures and stuttering frame rates on PS3 titles, the developers are having to work around the split memory.

Therefore, without putting too fine a point on it, Sony knew they could not make the same mistake again with the PS4. The PS4 took a leaf out of Microsoft's book and thus the PS4 features a fast cpu, a fast gpu and a flat memory model. After the split memory issues of the PS3, Sony have taken it one step further by having an entirely flat memory model to keep processing as simple as possible by not even having on dye ram on the GPU. However, if they'd fitted GDDR3 ram then the PS4 would have been at a disadvantage (even with the GPUs slightly better performance over that fitted in the XBone) because of the lack of on dye ram on the GPU. This is the reason the PS4 has GDDR5 and why MS didn't feel they needed the extra expense.
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#23Shacky_101Posted 12/30/2013 11:43:36 AM
Well I say it's because of Kinect. DDR3 is cheaper and they have esRAM to increase the bandwidth.

Now hopefully people recognizes that comparing RAM is extremely stupid. Sure the the GDDR5 memory in the PS4 does have a higher bandwidth then the Xbox One, but respectively speaking, the Xbox One has a weaker GPU, so that exra bandwidth isn't really important. RAM is important and can bottleneck a GPU. RAM feeds the GPU with information. If the GPU doesn't have enough bandwidth or memory, it can bottleneck a GPU. The bandwidth in the Xbox One is plenty for the GPU, but since the GPU in the PS4 is more powerful, it needs a higher bandwidth to feed the GPU.

But the problem is with the Xbox One is its RAM set up. Sure tbe Xbox One does have esRAM to remedy its slower DDR3 memory, but it can bottleneck the GPU, and developers have to utilize. One way to fix this problem is you can add more esRAM, but that's obviously too late. Optimizing the Xbox One won't be much of a problem in the future as developers get more used to the RAM set up. And there are some pretty nifty tricks the esRAM can do.
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#24Reflex-ArcPosted 12/30/2013 11:44:11 AM
Whoever it was here that said the trolling subjects used on this particular board were cyclical was spot on with their observation.
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#25kissdadookiePosted 12/30/2013 11:48:30 AM
Shacky_101 posted...
Well I say it's because of Kinect. DDR3 is cheaper and they have esRAM to increase the bandwidth.

Now hopefully people recognizes that comparing RAM is extremely stupid. Sure the the GDDR5 memory in the PS4 does have a higher bandwidth then the Xbox One, but respectively speaking, the Xbox One has a weaker GPU, so that exra bandwidth isn't really important. RAM is important and can bottleneck a GPU. RAM feeds the GPU with information. If the GPU doesn't have enough bandwidth or memory, it can bottleneck a GPU. The bandwidth in the Xbox One is plenty for the GPU, but since the GPU in the PS4 is more powerful, it needs a higher bandwidth to feed the GPU.

But the problem is with the Xbox One is its RAM set up. Sure tbe Xbox One does have esRAM to remedy its slower DDR3 memory, but it can bottleneck the GPU, and developers have to utilize. One way to fix this problem is you can add more esRAM, but that's obviously too late. Optimizing the Xbox One won't be much of a problem in the future as developers get more used to the RAM set up. And there are some pretty nifty tricks the esRAM can do.


Kinect is part of the reason but ultimately it's because the XBOne was designed more like a computer. MS treated the RAM as system memory. Sony treated their RAM as GPU memory. So in a dumbed down explanation, MS built more of a computer and Sony build a video card with a computer hanging off of it. The two systems were designed in very different ways for two very different long term visions.
#26airfoemoePosted 12/30/2013 11:48:33 AM
DecmanC posted...
IDK, but what PS4 fanboys and trolls are conveniently missing out is the fact that MS put some eSRAM in the XB1, but Sony didn't. Why don't you ask the PS4 board why Sony opted to use nothing in place of eSRAM?


eSRAM is just a gimmick so you guys don't question why you are buying $500 system that is weaker than the $400 system.
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#27SythisTaruPosted 12/30/2013 11:53:09 AM
airfoemoe posted...
DecmanC posted...
IDK, but what PS4 fanboys and trolls are conveniently missing out is the fact that MS put some eSRAM in the XB1, but Sony didn't. Why don't you ask the PS4 board why Sony opted to use nothing in place of eSRAM?


eSRAM is just a gimmick so you guys don't question why you are buying $500 system that is weaker than the $400 system.


Because you are getting a 400 dollar Kinect (the only reason I want the System) for 100.
#28SigmaLongshotPosted 12/30/2013 12:06:00 PM
To get to the other side!! Hoho.

Oh, no wait, that's the answer to a different thing. Never mind.
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#29BrownGottiPosted 12/30/2013 12:06:09 PM
airfoemoe posted...
DecmanC posted...
IDK, but what PS4 fanboys and trolls are conveniently missing out is the fact that MS put some eSRAM in the XB1, but Sony didn't. Why don't you ask the PS4 board why Sony opted to use nothing in place of eSRAM?


eSRAM is just a gimmick so you guys don't question why you are buying $500 system that is weaker than the $400 system.


Sony fanboys so price conscious after spending $599 for a weaker PS3.
#30Team_NinjaPosted 12/30/2013 12:07:35 PM
Because DDR3 is more efficient.