Microsoft wasn't lying Xbox one extremely powerful when Direct X 12

#61rgwPosted 3/20/2014 1:21:52 PM(edited)
method115 posted...
SoulTrapper posted...
The Forza demo was on Nvidia.

Direct X12 could theoretically give 50% less workload for CPU and a 20% boost in graphics.

Pretty interesting stuff.


Of course, this is a tech demo and an unveil, so most of it should be taken with a grain of salt.
As it was with the power of the cloud and AMDs Mantle, theoretically possible doesn't mean it will actually happen as they say it will.


Exactly. Working in IT for over ten years now and one thing I've learned is "I'll believe it when I see it". Shows like this are meant to be a sort of advertisement for the product it's like watching a commercial for some product and believing every single thing they say. While sometimes those commercials are 100% true sometimes they flat out lie or exaggerate.


Same deal here. I know these kind of shows too well. Maybe not to the level of audience as this one but I've driven demonstrations for clients before and you always put your best case forward. "if you buy the exact servers we prescribe and use the default build without any additional rework for your business process then the tech will work exactly like we demoed."

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#62godplaysSNESPosted 3/20/2014 1:21:00 PM
You need to understand that DX12 is primarily better for the PC


The biggest advantages the consoles always have had is that they provide the capability of "coding to the metal". Unless Microsoft really screwed up with the Xbox One's low-level API, DX12 on the Xbox One will be meaningless.
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#63rgwPosted 3/20/2014 1:25:36 PM(edited)
I don't think you can say it will be meaningless. By the same token, you can't say it is going to immediately pay massive dividends either. Lets see it "in the wild" before we make value assessments.


I think it will be mostly positive for the XB1 but the degree is yet to be determined. Efficiencies are still efficiencies...its just a matter of magnitude felt on the xb1. I'm not going to say it will actually do it until I see it in action.
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#64Ramsus082Posted 3/20/2014 1:24:45 PM
This will probably help developers port PC titles to the XboxOne a little easier, which is also good news.
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#65KabtheMentatPosted 3/20/2014 1:41:25 PM
godplaysSNES posted...
You need to understand that DX12 is primarily better for the PC


The biggest advantages the consoles always have had is that they provide the capability of "coding to the metal". Unless Microsoft really screwed up with the Xbox One's low-level API, DX12 on the Xbox One will be meaningless.


Pretty much this. It'll be a bigger deal on the PC because developers, for some reason, when developing a game on the PC don't optimize for ****. They pretty much force everyone to brute force their games...which is often why you'll have extremely powerful gaming PCs struggle with seemingly lower end games.

But on consoles they have to optimize because there's not a whole lot to work with. CPU, GPU, and RAM are at a premium. And those will never be upgraded, so they know what they have to work with for 10 years. But with PCs, new crap comes out every 6-12 months. They often take the view Ubisoft does in that, "Aw who cares, if they want to play the game they can just buy a new graphics card, right? Optimization? WTF is that?"

Point is don't make this out to be anything more than it really is. AMD came out with a new API called Mantle recently and promised all kinds of crazy performance improvements with Battlefield 4...turns out unless you're using a really low end CPU, it doesn't make that much of a difference.
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#66Juzten76Posted 3/20/2014 3:33:03 PM
I'd be excited if the games didn't already look and run great. Anything more is just a bonus. Regardless of the dx12, the games will just get better and better looking every year.
#67grndzro7Posted 3/21/2014 8:38:14 PM
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#68Xeeh_BitzPosted 3/22/2014 12:06:54 AM
schmarkenheimer posted...
It looks a lot like Mantle (AMD's low-level API). So, from what we know of that we can speculate what'll happen for Dx12. That means that when CPU-bound, it'll improve framerates. GPU bound it'll do very little. This means low resolutions for example will have increase average framerates, higher resolutions it probably won't do much. For example in Thief with Mantle:

http://www.computerbase.de/2014-03/amd-mantle-thief-benchmarks/2/#diagramm-thief-2560-1600-fxaa-16xaf

(CPU is a 4770k)

720p:

http://cdn3.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Thief-Mantle-DirectX-Benchmarks-720p.png

1080p:
http://cdn2.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Thief-Mantle-DirectX-Benchmarks-1080p.png

Notice how little the less powerful GPUs improve, if at all at 1080p v the much more noticeable jumps at 720p? That's a CPU bound situation. That's what Dx12 will improve. For another game (BF4):

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/29682-erste-ergebnisse-im-kampf-mantle-vs-directx.html

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/images/stories/galleries/reviews/2014/mantle/mantle-290x-2-rs.png

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/images/stories/galleries/reviews/2014/mantle/mantle-280x.jpg

CPU v GPU bottleneck pics 1 & 2. Be cautious when people quote large improvements. They're usually very carefully done to make it as look as good as possible (marketing). For example:

http://cdn4.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Mantle-vs-DirectX.jpg

Starswarm mantle v dx. That's a ridiculously CPU limited title. That's certainly not a "normal" scenario. Given the console environment too I wouldn't expect too large an improvement over their tools either. Since when weren't console devs able to code "to the metal"? If it's really that big of an improvement then really it's MS rectifying their mistakes.


Yeah, these APIs are basically used for CPU bottlenecks, as in those 1080P resolutions and 720P had gains but when you pass those resolutions, the GPU is the bottleneck and the gains are not much.
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#69jpraelsterPosted 3/22/2014 1:06:43 AM
Juzten76 posted...
I'd be excited if the games didn't already look and run great. Anything more is just a bonus. Regardless of the dx12, the games will just get better and better looking every year.