Why MS is forcing the Kinect on the XB1

#101XtremeWRATH360Posted 4/15/2014 4:42:15 PM
You gonna tell me inflating has to do with rape as well?
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#102gogogodzillaPosted 4/15/2014 7:07:54 PM
jumbrocat posted...
aszsith posted...
Your lack of willingness to admit that force is the wrong word illustrates your lack of reason. Therefore it comes as no surprise that you feel as though there is no need to alter your thought process. This does not in any way change the fact that you are using the word force incorrectly though.


I can only only assume you would also think that the Australian legal system is also using the word 'force' incorrectly. Third-line forcing is a type of anti-competitive business practice where supply of a good or service is subject to the essential condition that the consumer also buy another good or service from a particular third-party (source: http://www.accc.gov.au/business/anti-competitive-behaviour/exclusive-dealing). I'm not sure whether this is also the law in other countries, but in Australia this means that a business cannot refuse to sell a product to someone if they do not purchase something from a specific other party

I acknowledge that this is not perfectly analogous to the Kinect situation - the Kinect is bundled with the XB1, it can be argued to be part of a whole product and no third-parties are involved. However, this is a situation where supply of a primary product is subject to the compelled purchase of an item that is secondary and/or not an intrinsic part of the first. This had been characterised as a 'forced' action by people who probably know what they are talking about. You are wrong.

Talking about it being an unessential luxury purchase, and citing places where there are 'actual threats of force', are just moving the goal posts and straw-manning people who disagree with you. When you have no other option than to buy an XB1 with Kinect, that means Kinect is forced.

Note: don't turn this into an argument as to the credibility or jurisdiction of Australian law. I cited it as an example where learned minds have used the word 'forced' in a very similar context to this conversation.


This.
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#103aszsithPosted 4/15/2014 7:59:44 PM
Well, I tried. But you can't instruct the unwilling.

Just for squirts and giggles though:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/force

force [fawrs, fohrs]
noun
1.
physical power or strength possessed by a living being: He used all his force in opening the window.
2.
strength or power exerted upon an object; physical coercion; violence: to use force to open the window; to use force on a person.
3.
strength; energy; power; intensity: a personality of great force.
4.
power to influence, affect, or control; efficacious power: the force of circumstances; a force for law and order.
5.
Law. unlawful violence threatened or committed against persons or property.
6.
persuasive power; power to convince: They felt the force of his arguments.
7.
mental or moral strength: force of character.
8.
might, as of a ruler or realm; strength for war.
9.
Often, forces. the military or fighting strength, especially of a nation.
10.
any body of persons combined for joint action: a sales force.
11.
intensity or strength of effect: the force of her acting.
12.
Physics.
a.
an influence on a body or system, producing or tending to produce a change in movement or in shape or other effects.
b.
the intensity of such an influence. Symbol: F, f
13.
any influence or agency analogous to physical force: social forces.
14.
binding power, as of a contract.
15.
Baseball. force play.
16.
value; significance; meaning.
17.
Billiards. a stroke in which the cue ball is forcibly struck directly below the center in such a manner as to cause it to stop abruptly, bound back, or roll off to one side after hitting the object ball.

verb (used with object), forced, forc·ing.
18.
to compel, constrain, or oblige (oneself or someone) to do something: to force a suspect to confess.
19.
to drive or propel against resistance: He forced his way through the crowd. They forced air into his lungs.
20.
to bring about or effect by force.
21.
to bring about of necessity or as a necessary result: to force a smile.
22.
to put or impose (something or someone) forcibly on or upon a person: to force one's opinions on others.
23.
to compel by force; overcome the resistance of: to force acceptance of something.
24.
to obtain or draw forth by or as if by force; extort: to force a confession.
25.
to enter or take by force; overpower: They forced the town after a long siege.
26.
to break open (a door, lock, etc.).
27.
to cause (plants, fruits, etc.) to grow or mature at an increased rate by artificial means.
28.
to press, urge, or exert (an animal, person, etc.) to violent effort or to the utmost.
29.
to use force upon.
30.
to rape.

31.
Baseball.
a.
to cause (a base runner) to be put out by obliging the runner, as by a ground ball, to vacate a base and attempt to move to the next base in order to make room for another runner or the batter.
b.
to cause (a base runner or run) to score, as by walking a batter with the bases full (often followed by in ).
32.
Cards.
a.
to compel (a player) to trump by leading a suit of which the player has no cards.
b.
to compel a player to play (a particular card).
c.
to compel (a player) to play so as to make known the strength of the hand.
33.
Photography .
a.
to develop (a print or negative) for longer than usual in order to increase density or bring out details.
b.
to bring out underexposed parts of (a print or negative) by adding alkali to the developer.
34.
Archaic. to give force to; strengthen; reinforce.

And.....I'm out
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ALL games should have a Single Player mode. I can always guarantee I want to play when I turn on my system. I can't guarantee others will at the same time.
#104JRDeBoPosted 4/15/2014 8:31:29 PM
gogogodzilla posted...
jumbrocat posted...
aszsith posted...
Your lack of willingness to admit that force is the wrong word illustrates your lack of reason. Therefore it comes as no surprise that you feel as though there is no need to alter your thought process. This does not in any way change the fact that you are using the word force incorrectly though.


I can only only assume you would also think that the Australian legal system is also using the word 'force' incorrectly. Third-line forcing is a type of anti-competitive business practice where supply of a good or service is subject to the essential condition that the consumer also buy another good or service from a particular third-party (source: http://www.accc.gov.au/business/anti-competitive-behaviour/exclusive-dealing). I'm not sure whether this is also the law in other countries, but in Australia this means that a business cannot refuse to sell a product to someone if they do not purchase something from a specific other party

I acknowledge that this is not perfectly analogous to the Kinect situation - the Kinect is bundled with the XB1, it can be argued to be part of a whole product and no third-parties are involved. However, this is a situation where supply of a primary product is subject to the compelled purchase of an item that is secondary and/or not an intrinsic part of the first. This had been characterised as a 'forced' action by people who probably know what they are talking about. You are wrong.

Talking about it being an unessential luxury purchase, and citing places where there are 'actual threats of force', are just moving the goal posts and straw-manning people who disagree with you. When you have no other option than to buy an XB1 with Kinect, that means Kinect is forced.

Note: don't turn this into an argument as to the credibility or jurisdiction of Australian law. I cited it as an example where learned minds have used the word 'forced' in a very similar context to this conversation.


This.


Then couldn't you claim that Sony FORCED people to buy the blu-ray drive that came with PS3s, they could easily of made a DVD drive version and released games on both formats like is done with movies. They already release in multiple formats (physical/digital) so this isn't unheard of. This also drove the cost up and forced consumers to buy something they might not have wanted at the time.
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#105XtremeWRATH360Posted 4/15/2014 8:43:40 PM
Once again with so many meanings of Force why are you so compelled to talk about Rape?

Also another meaning of Force
----make (someone) do something against their will.--

Seems to fit the scenario as like i stated MS is making me take the Kinect whether i want it or not as they're forcing it on me. So do you understand or would you like to continue talking about rape some more?
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Juan is........NUMBER 1!
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