I'm personally a little disappointed and disheartened by this Kinect removal.

#71SigmaLongshot(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2014 4:35:52 AM
Pulp posted...
The smarmy pretentious nature of every Sigma post always makes me nauseous.

Waggle wands, Tablet Controllers and Hit-n-Miss voice control aren't the future. Your post is self defeating anyway. If, as you say, high quality gaming is becoming accessible everywhere (and it is), then game design cannot stagnate, as distribution becomes equally accessible everywhere.

The console model (closed system) is dying though. Good riddance.


Ah, right. When debate fails, argumentum ad hominem works too.

But yes, I fear consoles will, sooner rather than later, die a death, imploding through their lack of contemporary relevance.

This isn't just home consoles either; back in 2005 Nintendo pre-empted mobile phone gaming with the DS, offering dual screens, a touchpad, and microphone. When mobile phones adopted touch screens, the 3DS added gyros and 3D. It's this kind of unique relevance, one step of innovation ahead, that keeps these games machines from becoming obsolete. Imagine if Nintendo was instead making "Game Boy 6" instead of wholly unique machines. Do you think the machines would retain relevance to such a degree?

The Kinect is as much a symbolic thing as it is a product; it signifies Microsoft's acceptance that even attempting to innovate is a trying, head vs. wall smashothon when trying to show people that change will keep their hobby alive in the forms they're used to.
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#72Ramsus082Posted 5/14/2014 10:12:51 AM(edited)
But my past few posts have illustrated how small adoptions of such a device not only enhance current gameplay, but also remove or lessen some of the more arbitrary console tropes we've grown to just deal with, or take for granted.

They weren't asking for small adoptions, they were asking for 100% compliance from every single XboxOne owner. Instead of allowing the market to evolve organically by demonstrating a product's purpose and offering it for sale again, they never demonstrated any worthwhile content and forced it's sale. That was a bad move for the brand, and you could make the argument that Microsoft has hurt the console gaming industry with it this generation, not helped it along.

You might SAY you like mashing B when you're being attacked by a xenomorph, having to run back to a comrade to press a context-sensitive button to get them to follow, or having to use the right stick to look around the cockpit of your Forza car or Titanfall mech.

But why not keep your standard controller for core gameplay, but add a "shove" for the xenomorph? Add a vocal "stay" and "follow me" command for sodding Ashley Williams? Just... Looking around the cockpit to look around the cockpit?!



Sounds cool. Couldn't they offer that through a mic on the controller though? I'm pretty sure that could be achieved with a mic on the controller...

You can find a few Kinect enhancements if you look hard enough for them, but the problem was never that there couldn't be any good uses for it, the problem was that in most gamers' minds the premium for it wasn't worth it.

You don't evolve gaming by latching onto an expensive force-fed peripheral as a consumer just because it's new technology.

"It's useless" is a Luddite complaint by people already in "100% No Way!" mode from the start. Ironically I personally know two of these people, who have never even TRIED a Kinect save for Dance Central on X360 at a party, and decided then and there the entire potential of the tech.

Look, "don't knock it 'till you tried it!" isn't a good argument. Yes, people are capable of being surprised often. They're also capable of making good judgements on what's fun for them and what isn't. If what you're arguing is that the only reason Kinect failed was because of consumer ignorance, then I think we're on two different planes here.


Proof of concept was limited only to designers with a unified SKU, with Kinect packed in. Now, it's not just facing that, but the far greater hurdle of investor backing and smaller market base; two things that are rarely happy bedfellows.

Kinect failed gamers when it was a peripheral. It failed gamers again when it was a forced part of the console. When are we going to stop blaming Kinect's failures on the gamers? It wasn't up to us to try and bleed some innovation(read: fun) out it, the burden was theirs.
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"Exclusives MIGHT look better on the PS4. Multiplatform games will look identical." - You
#73Ramsus082Posted 5/14/2014 10:16:54 AM
3D gaming was another trend that was supposed to shepard us gamers into the new world order. Yet another trend that was technically innovative, but that gamers on the whole did not want. The industry responded to our skepticism by dropping it from their plans for the most part and moving on. So, were gamers who refused to buy-in to the 3D hype holding back the industry from evolving?

Seems to me like consumers prevented the industry from moving in a direction that they didn't want it to go in. Is that the same thing as stifling progress or innovation? And do you see the Kinect comparison I'm making?
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"Exclusives MIGHT look better on the PS4. Multiplatform games will look identical." - You
#74SigmaLongshot(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2014 12:55:46 PM
Ramsus, I thoroughly appreciate the input. You're the sort of person who has views in opposition to mine that I still respect, for having valid stances on points. Kudos up front.

My proposals for Kinect were absolutely minor enhancements to a core game, but that is how I see Kinect flourishing.

"Move your living room sofa out of the way and prepare for leapgasm" is not what gamers want. But i believe that nuanced spatial control can really immerse players. Arbitrary things.

The equivalent of particle effects in the fourth dimension.

It's difficult to convey, but, think of a game like Metro: 2033. In that game, your visor got bloody, steamy and murky. Now, all the little silly actions mapped to buttons (where buttons are valuable control real estate) could easily be a kinect action; wiping blood from your face/screen, swatting at flies, immersing you further into the world.

It doesn't NEED to impede or impose upon your current experience! It can be so much more by being so minute, so subtle, that you smirk with a "heh, that was actually pretty cool" smile as you play as you've always done.

Subtlety was how I would've integrated Kinect. Microsoft opted for "all or nothing".
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#75ILikesCheesePosted 5/14/2014 8:15:45 PM
Uh.

Sigma, it's like this: your preferences are not shared by the majority of the gaming public. Motion controls, be they Wiimotes or Kinect hand waving silliness, is niche in the extreme. Like 3D, it was a fad that will thankfully go the way of wired controllers. Something like the Kinect does have a place in a dance or exercise game, but only that. "Wiping blood off your visor"....seriously?

Uh.
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If you're omnipotent and all-powerful...why would you need to REST? On the 7th or ANY day?
#76SigmaLongshot(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2014 8:29:15 PM
ILikesCheese posted...
Uh.

Sigma, it's like this: your preferences are not shared by the majority of the gaming public. Motion controls, be they Wiimotes or Kinect hand waving silliness, is niche in the extreme. Like 3D, it was a fad that will thankfully go the way of wired controllers. Something like the Kinect does have a place in a dance or exercise game, but only that. "Wiping blood off your visor"....seriously?

Uh.


It's called "atmospheric ambience" and it's used in a lot of games; specialized actions in-game the player does solely for the purpose of world-building.

In Metro, there is a button devoted to wiping and refreshing the visor, just as many games have a button to blink, eat hamburgers, focus on landmarks or inspect superfluous loot.

I'm saying that superfluous stuff is ideal because it is peripheral to the player. It does not infringe on their beloved arbitrary ideals.

Plus, Id imagine even the most stony-hearted would crack a smile if you could shade your eyes from the sun by cupping your hand over your brow in-game.
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#77MrImpatient35Posted 5/14/2014 8:36:50 PM
I agree. Gaming is so readily available these days. There's handhelds, mobile games, etc. Also, people have been saying how console gaming is getting very "stale" lately. It's the same s*** every generation. Better hardware, but you're still only playing with your controller. At least with Kinect, gaming on consoles would be a bit different. Who knows what they could've used it to do. It could read your hearbeat, so maybe they could've used that in a horror game. Even though it's a small feature, I LOVE the biometric sign in (I have a passcode to put in before I sign in).

Even though this word seems to get people all butthurt, I thought Kinect would be very innovative in about 2 years, but it has essentially been killed after only 6 months. Now I just wonder, what could've been? None of the potential uses for Kinect that my friends and I thought of will happen now.

Are they still gonna support Kinect now? The attach rate will significantly drop from 100% now.
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FML
#78ILikesCheesePosted 5/14/2014 8:39:35 PM
SigmaLongshot posted...
It's called "atmospheric ambience" and it's used in a lot of games...
I'm saying that superfluous stuff is ideal because it is peripheral to the player. It does not infringe on their beloved arbitrary ideals.

Plus, Id imagine even the most stony-hearted would crack a smile if you could shade your eyes from the sun by cupping your hand over your brow in-game.


I find stuff like that to be superfluous nonsense, annoying and not truly immersive,

Hey, you know what WOULD have been good "atmospheric ambience" ?

The ILLUMIROOM. That was something I could get behind and not mind paying a $100 or $200 for if they could have figured out a way to drop the price by a factor of ten. Silly hand motions in video games? No thanks. It was fun for awhile back in 2008 with Boom Blox and Warioware and Wii Sports when the motions were integral to the game design. But the gaming "additions" you describe I find to be tedious and pointless.
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If you're omnipotent and all-powerful...why would you need to REST? On the 7th or ANY day?
#79iceman1685Posted 5/14/2014 9:23:04 PM
the reason gaming is not dead and wont be for awhile is i cant pop in a disc into my pc or dl a game and just play. i have to have the right installs and drivers and equipment. not a lot of people have the patience to dick around with all of that. with a console i pop in the disc and play. sometimes you have updates but most of the time you can just play
#80SigmaLongshot(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2014 11:36:02 PM
ILikesCheese posted...
SigmaLongshot posted...
It's called "atmospheric ambience" and it's used in a lot of games...
I'm saying that superfluous stuff is ideal because it is peripheral to the player. It does not infringe on their beloved arbitrary ideals.

Plus, Id imagine even the most stony-hearted would crack a smile if you could shade your eyes from the sun by cupping your hand over your brow in-game.


I find stuff like that to be superfluous nonsense, annoying and not truly immersive,

Hey, you know what WOULD have been good "atmospheric ambience" ?

The ILLUMIROOM. That was something I could get behind and not mind paying a $100 or $200 for if they could have figured out a way to drop the price by a factor of ten. Silly hand motions in video games? No thanks. It was fun for awhile back in 2008 with Boom Blox and Warioware and Wii Sports when the motions were integral to the game design. But the gaming "additions" you describe I find to be tedious and pointless.


I respect your opinion, but equally so, there are people that genuinely did want unique, immersive Kinect functionality.

What's the greater evil though? Attempting this new, subtler approach to Kinect functionality, or completely writing it off without giving it a chance? Sadly, with a fragmented platform, the latter looks more and more probable.
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