So this is it for Mega Man

#71GreatTroySenseiPosted 1/3/2013 11:33:02 PM
Dark_SilverX posted...
The reason MM is dead is because people are tired of the 8bit side scrolling rehashes.


Wha? 9 and 10 sold fine, amazingly considering their meager budget. Meanwhile, X7 and 8 sold so poorly that they caused the X series' cancellation, and Dash3 couldn't get enough support to even see a release. The oldschool, sidescrolling games are in fact the only ones which actually DO sell.
---
These are like, third dimension glasses, you know? They don't really work, though because I feel like I'm still seeing stuff in whatever dimension we live in.
#72wufei8706Posted 1/4/2013 2:57:52 PM
9 and 10 are great games. 9 even more, but still.
---
http://i45.tinypic.com/4sl82r.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Uu5mm.png
#73Jak7733Posted 1/5/2013 5:01:34 AM
9 is no more a rehash of 2 than every other game in the classic series is of 1. Seriously, that's the most illogical argument for why 9 is bad that I've ever heard. Also, 2 is the worst in the classic series by far, speaking purely from a level design and balancing standpoint. Take of the nostalgia glasses already. Sure, 2 is still fun to play but it has some bad bad bad decisions like Metal Blade being so overpowered , requiring item 1 to reach the Mecha Dragon from the last check point (combined with the circumstances of the fight), the wall turret boss requiring exactly as many crash bombs as you can fire with full weapon energy and being invulnerable to all other weapons, and probably the worst of all is the alien being immune to everything but the bubble lead and there being absolutely NO way to regain weapon energy (forcing you to game over if you run out).
---
What the hell is a Firioniel? Is that the cable that fits an iFrion? - ponosmcgee on Dissidia Final Fantasy
#74bassyuraPosted 1/6/2013 3:51:12 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
#75n00bsaib0tPosted 1/6/2013 6:55:38 AM
I'll bet you can't rebut a single point he made though.
---
PSN/XBL- Nifterific
SSF4AE: Balrog, Evil Ryu | UMvC3: C.Viper/Morrigan/Hulk | MK9: Noob Saibot, Cyber Sub-Zero | SFxTK: Ryu/Guile
#76GreatTroySenseiPosted 1/6/2013 7:32:33 AM
n00bsaib0t posted...
I'll bet you can't rebut a single point he made though.


*cracks knuckles*

Jak7733 posted...
9 is no more a rehash of 2 than every other game in the classic series is of 1. Seriously, that's the most illogical argument for why 9 is bad that I've ever heard. Also, 2 is the worst in the classic series by far, speaking purely from a level design and balancing standpoint. Take of the nostalgia glasses already. Sure, 2 is still fun to play but it has some bad bad bad decisions like Metal Blade being so overpowered , requiring item 1 to reach the Mecha Dragon from the last check point (combined with the circumstances of the fight), the wall turret boss requiring exactly as many crash bombs as you can fire with full weapon energy and being invulnerable to all other weapons, and probably the worst of all is the alien being immune to everything but the bubble lead and there being absolutely NO way to regain weapon energy (forcing you to game over if you run out).


- Metal Blade being OP is fine; it's there for bad players. Nearly every main series game has an OP weapon. Shadow Blade and Pharaoh Shot say hi.
- Don't scrub out and waste item 1, durr. It's called strategy.
- The wall boss turret is meant to make you, again, strategically memorize the patterns, and use every last one of those bombs well. Again, sorry games without infinite respawn handholding are too hard for you.
- The alien isn't hard to hit with Bubble Lead, and they made it damn near worthless otherwise on purpose. Again, difficulty by design. Think before you try and use every weapon in every stage because OMG speedrun.

Those "arguments" boil down to "I'm bad at MM2, therefore it's bad." Doesn't work that way. Nothing works that way.
---
These are like, third dimension glasses, you know? They don't really work, though because I feel like I'm still seeing stuff in whatever dimension we live in.
#77n00bsaib0tPosted 1/6/2013 7:50:53 AM
The fact that you flat out can't use Crash Bomb (unless you get a refill) or you can't beat that boss unless you game over is bad design. The first time you play the game you aren't going to know that there is a boss that requires every Crash Bomb you can hold. If you screw up one shot, or die against it, you have to get a game over. Have you ever even played this game? Do you know how infuriating it is having to sit there and wait for that boss to kill you 9 times because you mistimed ONE Crash Bomb? There is nothing about this that says "good design". It has nothing to do with infinite respawns or hand holding, that is bad design plain and simple.

And there are OP weapons and there are OP weapons that have nearly infinite weapon energy. You have to fire like 3 of them to even register one pellet of energy, and it rips through everything. You can damn near rapid fire it and with the weapon refills the enemies will drop you can still reach the end of a stage with the weapon energy at half if not more.

As for "not wasting item 1", there is a difference between wasting it and dying against the Mecha Dragon and having to go back and do that part again. See the Crash Bomb point, it's infuriating to have to repeatedly die because you screwed up once and now you don't have enough weapon energy to make it through the stage.

But hey, I guess its also bad logic that the Needle Man doc bot stage was poorly designed because if you died at the end of the long ass bottomless pit you didn't have enough Rush Jet to make it across. One mistake when you're doing good and see the Crash Bomb and item 1 points, you have to purposely die upwards of 8 times (if you had 9 and died once by accident) just to be able to do that part.

This isn't difficulty by design, its bad design. Remove your nostalgia goggles and look at the damn games. I've been playing them for 21 years, I've beaten them all on their original console with no cheats or save states, I know what I'm doing, but its infuriating to screw up once and have to die 9 times so you can go through a section of a level.
---
PSN/XBL- Nifterific
SSF4AE: Balrog, Evil Ryu | UMvC3: C.Viper/Morrigan/Hulk | MK9: Noob Saibot, Cyber Sub-Zero | SFxTK: Ryu/Guile
#78Da DoodPosted 1/6/2013 8:07:12 AM
You don't have to game over if you die to the wall boss. You respawn in the mid-point of the stage, plenty of enemies to farm ammo.

That said, I agree that the earlier games had some annoying design stuff. I don't think it's such a big deal because that was a different time. Back then it was frustrating to realize that you had to die to refill Crash Bombs, but at the same time, at least I never kept analyzing the design part of the fight... I just wanted to finish the game. These days we're more demanding and knowledgeable on this stuff, so a few things don't pass unnoticed anymore.

OP weapons don't bother me at all... they would if they weren't optional to use.
---
And this time!
#79GreatTroySenseiPosted 1/6/2013 8:33:25 AM(edited)
n00bsaib0t posted...
The fact that you flat out can't use Crash Bomb (unless you get a refill) or you can't beat that boss unless you game over is bad design. The first time you play the game you aren't going to know that there is a boss that requires every Crash Bomb you can hold. If you screw up one shot, or die against it, you have to get a game over. Have you ever even played this game? Do you know how infuriating it is having to sit there and wait for that boss to kill you 9 times because you mistimed ONE Crash Bomb? There is nothing about this that says "good design". It has nothing to do with infinite respawns or hand holding, that is bad design plain and simple.

And there are OP weapons and there are OP weapons that have nearly infinite weapon energy. You have to fire like 3 of them to even register one pellet of energy, and it rips through everything. You can damn near rapid fire it and with the weapon refills the enemies will drop you can still reach the end of a stage with the weapon energy at half if not more.

As for "not wasting item 1", there is a difference between wasting it and dying against the Mecha Dragon and having to go back and do that part again. See the Crash Bomb point, it's infuriating to have to repeatedly die because you screwed up once and now you don't have enough weapon energy to make it through the stage.

But hey, I guess its also bad logic that the Needle Man doc bot stage was poorly designed because if you died at the end of the long ass bottomless pit you didn't have enough Rush Jet to make it across. One mistake when you're doing good and see the Crash Bomb and item 1 points, you have to purposely die upwards of 8 times (if you had 9 and died once by accident) just to be able to do that part.

This isn't difficulty by design, its bad design. Remove your nostalgia goggles and look at the damn games. I've been playing them for 21 years, I've beaten them all on their original console with no cheats or save states, I know what I'm doing, but its infuriating to screw up once and have to die 9 times so you can go through a section of a level.


How dare they include a part where I might die and have to back to the start of the stage! That's horrible game design!

So... basically every NES title was awful, then? Gotcha.

For someone who claims to have played the games OG, you sound rather bad at them. You shouldn't be dying 9 times to anything in the game.

I can beat Rockman 2 in about an hour, maybe. The bits you're mentioning are frustratingly hard, yes... but they're not gamebreaking. They certainly don't make one of the best games in the classic series into the worst.

By your logic, Contra and Metal Slug are horrible games. Being unforgiving isn't the same as being bad.
---
These are like, third dimension glasses, you know? They don't really work, though because I feel like I'm still seeing stuff in whatever dimension we live in.
#80n00bsaib0tPosted 1/6/2013 8:42:33 AM
Okay, I've found something more frustrating than the bad designs in Mega Man 2 and 3, people like you that can't comprehend basic English. I never once said something was so hard that I died 9 times. I said screwing up once, then having to intentionally die 9 times to refill weapon energy because you are stuck if you don't intentionally die. What is good design about forcing someone who's hauling ass through the game because he's been playing Mega Man 3 since he was 7 and can beat it in 45 minutes on a good day to die intentionally 8 times because he got hit off of a platform trying to collect energy for Rush Jet because he's human and mistakes like that happen, so now he has no Rush Jet and a huge ass pit to cross thats impossible with out it in the Needle Man doc bot stage? What about that is good design?

PS- Calling him "Rockman" doesn't make you sound cool, OG, or better than anyone else. You're speaking English, not Japanese.
---
PSN/XBL- Nifterific
SSF4AE: Balrog, Evil Ryu | UMvC3: C.Viper/Morrigan/Hulk | MK9: Noob Saibot, Cyber Sub-Zero | SFxTK: Ryu/Guile