Something MMX1 did, that no other game did...

#51Darkwing EXEPosted 1/3/2013 12:23:13 PM
What the Zero series does would be like saying "you beat Magnet Man, but you beat him too slow so you don't get Magnet Missiles. Good luck with Hard Man!".
But main difference between Zero series and X/Classic is the bosses have not pacific weaknesses besides element chips. And excluding Z1, those are automatically and carry over in NG+. Z4 gives you element EX skills instead; but rank level has nothing to do with gaining them, so that's moot.


I just can't see the average gamer getting through it without using Cyber Elfs for more energy.

True. But truth of the matter, Zero wasn't made for the average gamer. Or really to say, MMZ isn't for those that just want to beat the game as soon as possible and move on. It was made for those that like to challenge themselves and the Cyber-Elves are to help newcomers learn about the game. If the player doesn't like being given a low rank and a insulting title, they either start fresh and work at it, or just ignore it.
It's really only a issue when you try to unlock the mini-games.

As for the comparison to the boot upgrade and Rush Jet, the boot upgrade is optional. Now in Mega Man 2, 4, 5 and 6 you sort of have a point, but in Mega Man 3 you 100% need Rush Jet, its not an option, it has to be given to you or you can't beat the game

I couldn't remember which game the Rush Jet was most / least useful. But my point still stand that Classic is different from X, and Zero is different from both of them.
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"That's the way it works. I, the star, take a beating; then muster uncommon strength, and win." -Haze Shenron
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#52n00bsaib0tPosted 1/3/2013 12:42:31 PM
Zero 4 has no rank requirement for EX skills, or just elemental EX skills? Again, I haven't started this one yet, I plan to play it this weekend. If it got rid of the rank requirements for EX skills I would guess that I'm not the only one that felt this way.

As for Rush Jet in Mega Man 3, its not so much that its most useful, its flat out mandatory to beat the Needle Man doc bot stage. Rush Jet was broken in Mega Man 3 because it was basically made to be an upgrade to Item 2 (from Mega Man 2) and better in every way and the doc bot stage was made for that specific item (Rush Marine had the Gemini Man doc bot stage with a similar effect). You have total control over Rush in every direction and can even sit in one spot. In 4-7, 9 and 10 they corrected this and Rush Jet became more like a steerable Item 2 that always moved foreword but you could slowly move up and down.

Either way, the Zero series is great so far (as in what I have played of it) I just think that in some cases it was hard for the sake of being hard. I'm okay with there being rewards for all A ranks or even S ranking the entire game, but not the basic skills. I think things like Ultimate Form in Zero 2 and Ultimate Foot Chip in Zero 3 would have been good S rank rewards. These are things you need to really earn. Instead for Ultimate Form you just had to use all the Cyber Elfs, something a FAQ can get you (no FAQ can get you the skill needed for S rank) or grab one particular disc for the foot chip. Just my two cents, obviously some like it as is, I just think there are better criteria and items for rewards than boss abilities for averaging an A rank.
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#53Darkwing EXEPosted 1/3/2013 1:51:20 PM
Zero 4 has no rank requirement for EX skills, or just elemental EX skills? Again, I haven't started this one yet, I plan to play it this weekend. If it got rid of the rank requirements for EX skills I would guess that I'm not the only one that felt this way.

You don't get that far yet? Ok. Z4 takes a very different turn. To be blunt, before entering a stage, you can select to have it on the harder or easier version of the that area. Beating the boss while on the harder setting will give you the Ex Skill, no matter the rank. Element Chips are gone, so the Ex Skills have elemental damage effects.
You also have the Z-Knuckle, which also is used to compensate for the lack of chips. Ex: W-Troopers use fireball arm-canon. Defeat them with the Z-Knuckle, and you use that fire-type weapon for 5 of so shots. Enemies with taser-rods, you gain a electrical-type Tri-Rod attack until you chuck it or exit the stage.
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"That's the way it works. I, the star, take a beating; then muster uncommon strength, and win." -Haze Shenron
www.rockman-dash.com/1125.jpg
#54Splatterhouse5Posted 1/3/2013 3:15:55 PM
And for the stages where you can't select an easier or harder version, Zero 4 is like Zero 1; the bosses will use an EX power if you're at A or S, but it's not something you can copy.
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Canon: the juvenile's way of looking at fiction.
#55Da DoodPosted 1/3/2013 3:26:28 PM
I don't agree with the Magnet Missile comparison, n00b... the weaknesses in Zero games are not missable, they're the elemental chips which you can use with any weapon. The EX Skills are just extra moves. You shouldn't feel obligated to collect them, just like you shouldn't feel obligated to collect all the Forms or Secret Disks. They're optional stuff meant to increase the game's replay value.

As for Z4, it's kinda different from previous Z games, but still maintains the high quality action IMO. The recipe/part system is a little confusing and you'll probably go through the whole game without even knowing about the most useful part combinations. I recommend using a guide for this, seriously.

Like Darkwing said, all you need to do for the EX Skills in Z4 is finish the stage with the "hard" weather setting. The EX Skills in Z4 are actually VERY useful because they have elemental properties (Z4 doesn't have elemental chips).
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And this time!
#56Rasb_BurrisePosted 1/3/2013 3:36:39 PM
EX Skills are cool and all, but do you really need most of them? Hard Mode is where the awesome-sauce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi2Xw_0XTI4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrEgHyHWQ0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qKVnFfGRbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B09ZgXFSHRE
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