ok so i've never really played a street fighter game

#11n00bsaib0tPosted 1/6/2013 1:16:35 AM
From: John_Dane | #010
Ken does play similarly to Ryu. Not exactly, sure. But similarly, yes. It's not as big of a learning curve to play Ken if you can play Ryu, as to oppose playing Zangief or Balrog. At the "pro" level, hell if I know. But for the average joe picking up the game, they play similarly. I think you're being a little too pedantic.

To the average person picking up an FPS a gun is a gun. That doesn't make the average person right, and Ken plays nothing like Ryu. Watch some SF4 match vids and compare how many Hadoukens Ryu does compared to Ken. In SSF4AE Ken got the "non-projectile" character buffs despite having one, because his projectile is pretty much just there because him and Ryu were trained by the same person. Try the classic "throw a fireball, uppercut the jumping opponent" trick as Ken, it won't work because Ken has so much more recovery on his fireball. Ryu and Ken haven't played the same since 1992 or similar since 1994.
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PSN/XBL- Nifterific
SSF4AE: Balrog, Evil Ryu | UMvC3: C.Viper/Morrigan/Hulk | MK9: Noob Saibot, Cyber Sub-Zero | SFxTK: Ryu/Guile
#12joseph_swPosted 1/6/2013 10:52:31 AM
the odd one is Blanka's watermelons ...
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Mwha ha ha ha ha
#13KamisamanoOtakuPosted 1/6/2013 9:33:37 PM
n00bsaib0t posted...
From: John_Dane | #010
Ken does play similarly to Ryu. Not exactly, sure. But similarly, yes. It's not as big of a learning curve to play Ken if you can play Ryu, as to oppose playing Zangief or Balrog. At the "pro" level, hell if I know. But for the average joe picking up the game, they play similarly. I think you're being a little too pedantic.

To the average person picking up an FPS a gun is a gun. That doesn't make the average person right, and Ken plays nothing like Ryu. Watch some SF4 match vids and compare how many Hadoukens Ryu does compared to Ken. In SSF4AE Ken got the "non-projectile" character buffs despite having one, because his projectile is pretty much just there because him and Ryu were trained by the same person. Try the classic "throw a fireball, uppercut the jumping opponent" trick as Ken, it won't work because Ken has so much more recovery on his fireball. Ryu and Ken haven't played the same since 1992 or similar since 1994.


If you look up "gun" in the dictionary, you'll find that while players may misuse the term with some weapons, a lot of them do fall under the definition. For nouns:

1. a weapon consisting of a metal tube, with mechanical attachments, from which projectiles are shot by the force of an explosive; a piece of ordnance.
2. any portable firearm, as a rifle, shotgun, or revolver.
3. a long-barreled cannon having a relatively flat trajectory.
4. any device for shooting something under pressure: a paint gun; a staple gun.
5. Slang. a person whose profession is killing; professional killer: a gangland gun.
6. British . a member of a shooting party.
7. electron gun.

"Similar" does not require identical, or even nearly identical fighting styles... and remember that for some people that haven't played the game in years, Ryu and Ken become even more similar in fighting style the earlier back you go. In fact, checking the dictionary again, the first definition for similar is:

adjective
1. having a likeness or resemblance, especially in a general way: two similar houses.

"...especially in a general way..."

It is a pet peeve for you; I get that. If you want to help yourself out? Don't make enemies where they aren't present. If someone told me that Ryu and Ken played the exact same way, or even nearly the same, I'd tell them they need to try a Street Fighter game from within the last 10-15 years. Instead, I get to question your use of language.
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I like pie.
#14joseph_swPosted 1/7/2013 2:06:26 AM
KamisamanoOtaku posted...
If someone told me that Ryu and Ken played the exact same way, or even nearly the same, I'd tell them they need to try a Street Fighter game from within the last 10-15 years. Instead, I get to question your use of language.


agreed, the newer Street Fighter Ryu & Ken became less & less similar.
but don't forget this game is about 25th Anniv for both SF & MM,
and by 25 years ago,
both Ken & Ryu were almost the same except in aesthetic sense.

so based on this '25th' stuff, its correct to said that Ken was omitted for being too similar with Ryu,
though, OTOH other SF casts in this game were newer than 25 ago ...
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Mwha ha ha ha ha
#15n00bsaib0tPosted 1/7/2013 5:55:00 AM
From: joseph_sw | #054
agreed, the newer Street Fighter Ryu & Ken became less & less similar.
but don't forget this game is about 25th Anniv for both SF & MM,
and by 25 years ago,
both Ken & Ryu were almost the same except in aesthetic sense.

so based on this '25th' stuff, its correct to said that Ken was omitted for being too similar with Ryu,
though, OTOH other SF casts in this game were newer than 25 ago ...

On the other hand, C.Viper is in SFxMM. There goes the "25 years ago" theory.

From: KamisamanoOtaku | #053
If you look up "gun" in the dictionary, you'll find that while players may misuse the term with some weapons, a lot of them do fall under the definition. For nouns:

1. a weapon consisting of a metal tube, with mechanical attachments, from which projectiles are shot by the force of an explosive; a piece of ordnance.
2. any portable firearm, as a rifle, shotgun, or revolver.
3. a long-barreled cannon having a relatively flat trajectory.
4. any device for shooting something under pressure: a paint gun; a staple gun.
5. Slang. a person whose profession is killing; professional killer: a gangland gun.
6. British . a member of a shooting party.
7. electron gun.

"Similar" does not require identical, or even nearly identical fighting styles... and remember that for some people that haven't played the game in years, Ryu and Ken become even more similar in fighting style the earlier back you go. In fact, checking the dictionary again, the first definition for similar is:

adjective
1. having a likeness or resemblance, especially in a general way: two similar houses.

"...especially in a general way..."

It is a pet peeve for you; I get that. If you want to help yourself out? Don't make enemies where they aren't present. If someone told me that Ryu and Ken played the exact same way, or even nearly the same, I'd tell them they need to try a Street Fighter game from within the last 10-15 years. Instead, I get to question your use of language.

Are you really trying to argue that Assault Rifles are the same as Pistols are the same as Sniper Rifles are the same as Shotguns? Because the average person picking up an FPS isn't going to know the difference between all of the guns in the game and how they function. Even from game to game, look at the Pistol in Halo 1 and Halo 2, huge nerfs there.
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PSN/XBL- Nifterific
SSF4AE: Balrog, Evil Ryu | UMvC3: C.Viper/Morrigan/Hulk | MK9: Noob Saibot, Cyber Sub-Zero | SFxTK: Ryu/Guile
#16joseph_swPosted 1/7/2013 7:14:11 AM(edited)
n00bsaib0t posted...
From: joseph_sw | #054
though, OTOH other SF casts in this game were newer than 25 ago ...

On the other hand, C.Viper is in SFxMM. There goes the "25 years ago" theory.

but the only connect the "25th"-ness in this game are:
the opening intro (becase the game said so),
and the ending where its only shows characters from 25 years ago, guess who?

but i'm interested in your "various guns" analogy,
if Ryu is an Assault Rifle, then what is Ken ?
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Mwha ha ha ha ha
#17n00bsaib0tPosted 1/7/2013 7:22:39 AM
I'm not really a gun guy so I won't use real guns, I just know from playing a lot of Halo that in an FPS two guns that seem similar can be different. I would say if Ryu is the Halo 1 Assault Rifle then Ken is the Halo 2 Battle Rifle. From basic appearance these two things are the same, but when you actually use them they are different with their own sets of strengths and weaknesses.

Also the ending to SFxMM is a throw back to Street Fighter 2, which was 20 years ago. C.Viper is only a 4 year old character (she'll be 5 in July, yeah its been that long since SF4 already). Urien is a 15 year old character from Street Fighter 3: Second Impact. There is actually virtually no reference to SF1. Ryu is the only SF1 character in the game, but he uses his SF4 appearance and Ultra. Actually aside from Urien most of the game is based on SF4 and SFxTK. Rolento has his SFxTK Super Art, Rose, Dhalsim, Ryu, and Chun Li have their SF4 Ultras. Blanka has his SF4 Ultra with the effect of his SFA3 Super Combo and C.Viper has her lvl3 from UMvC3.

Yes, its a 25th Anniversary game but its not meant to be straight back to the roots, just celebrate the series in general.
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PSN/XBL- Nifterific
SSF4AE: Balrog, Evil Ryu | UMvC3: C.Viper/Morrigan/Hulk | MK9: Noob Saibot, Cyber Sub-Zero | SFxTK: Ryu/Guile
#18KamisamanoOtakuPosted 1/7/2013 12:33:56 PM
From: KamisamanoOtaku | #053
If you look up "gun" in the dictionary, you'll find that while players may misuse the term with some weapons, a lot of them do fall under the definition. For nouns:

1. a weapon consisting of a metal tube, with mechanical attachments, from which projectiles are shot by the force of an explosive; a piece of ordnance.
2. any portable firearm, as a rifle, shotgun, or revolver.
3. a long-barreled cannon having a relatively flat trajectory.
4. any device for shooting something under pressure: a paint gun; a staple gun.
5. Slang. a person whose profession is killing; professional killer: a gangland gun.
6. British . a member of a shooting party.
7. electron gun.

"Similar" does not require identical, or even nearly identical fighting styles... and remember that for some people that haven't played the game in years, Ryu and Ken become even more similar in fighting style the earlier back you go. In fact, checking the dictionary again, the first definition for similar is:

adjective
1. having a likeness or resemblance, especially in a general way: two similar houses.

"...especially in a general way..."

It is a pet peeve for you; I get that. If you want to help yourself out? Don't make enemies where they aren't present. If someone told me that Ryu and Ken played the exact same way, or even nearly the same, I'd tell them they need to try a Street Fighter game from within the last 10-15 years. Instead, I get to question your use of language.


n00bsaib0t posted...
Are you really trying to argue that Assault Rifles are the same as Pistols are the same as Sniper Rifles are the same as Shotguns? Because the average person picking up an FPS isn't going to know the difference between all of the guns in the game and how they function. Even from game to game, look at the Pistol in Halo 1 and Halo 2, huge nerfs there.


I am going to try one more time in case you aren't the troll you appear to be.

"Guns" as a term is a broad category. A pistol is a kind of gun. A sniper rifle is also a kind of gun. A shotgun is a kind of gun. Your argument is equivalent to raging over people referring to an apple as "fruit"... it is. Just because there are other kinds of fruit, does not mean an apple is not a fruit, and that people can't refer to fruit as fruit.

"Similar", which is how people are describing Ryu and Ken, doesn't mean identical. This is another word you are ignoring the definition (or at least one of the common definitions) for in order to just troll people.
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I like pie.
#19ClaudeLv250Posted 1/7/2013 8:28:48 PM
Ken and Ryu play similarly.
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Once you go Claude, everything else is a Fraud.
#20n00bsaib0tPosted 1/8/2013 6:39:39 AM
From: KamisamanoOtaku | #058
"Guns" as a term is a broad category. A pistol is a kind of gun. A sniper rifle is also a kind of gun. A shotgun is a kind of gun. Your argument is equivalent to raging over people referring to an apple as "fruit"... it is. Just because there are other kinds of fruit, does not mean an apple is not a fruit, and that people can't refer to fruit as fruit.

Actually, my argument is closer to "character is a broad category", Ryu is a character, Ken is a character, Sagat is a character, Akuma is a character, Gouken is a character, Dan is a character, Sakura is a character, Rose is a character. These character all have a fireball, a move that goes toward the opponent, an anti-air attack (Soul Throw serves the same anti-air purpose as a Shoryuken), etc. If Ryu and Ken play similarly then Sagat and Rose also play similarly. The fact of the matter is these characters all play nothing alike. And by your logic a Halo player uses the Sniper Rifle similar to the Shotgun. Just because they both are used to shoot people doesn't mean they are used similarly, they both serve completely different purposes.

"Similar", which is how people are describing Ryu and Ken, doesn't mean identical. This is another word you are ignoring the definition (or at least one of the common definitions) for in order to just troll people.

"Similar" is still wrong. This isn't about how the average person picking up SF4 views them. Wrong is wrong, and Ryu and Ken play nothing alike.
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PSN/XBL- Nifterific
SSF4AE: Balrog, Evil Ryu | UMvC3: C.Viper/Morrigan/Hulk | MK9: Noob Saibot, Cyber Sub-Zero | SFxTK: Ryu/Guile