God, Ragnarok and Holy Spear suck ...!

#1DeusMortemPosted 7/2/2013 11:17:04 AM
Most bosses are resistant to elements -- including holy. I usually do more damage equipping Defender. Pathetic. Is there no better option (that doesn't require 100,000 hours of grinding)? Wanting Dragon Spear for Kain; seems like a decent option (though it only has 4 more dmg and 20 less defense).
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I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
#2Rafael_PawaaPosted 7/8/2013 9:51:44 PM
This is actually one of the stupidest things they done when they remade the game. In the original, Holy was like the "top" element, very few enemies(if there was one) were strong against Holy, and it made a lot of sense, since Cecil is a Paladin and his weapons were all Holy Elemental(and that was ALL he had for damage, the Attack command).
Now if you don't want to suck you HAVE to use Onion Sword with Cecil and Cain. Which is the dumbest thing they could have done.
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Tsuki no michibikini... Yami to Hikari wo modarasan!!!
#3Chaosmaster00Posted 7/9/2013 5:57:00 AM
Ragnarok isn't meant as an offensive weapon, though... it does give the +15 STR and the highest ATK/ACC of any weapon besides Onion Sword for him, and the Holy to match the Paladin class, but the weapon is more of a defensive weapon thanks to the +15 Stamina and +15 Spirit, which drastically reduce the damage he takes from all types of damage, even moreso than Defender (except in the case that your STA/SPT would be maxed otherwise).

As for Holy Lance, as I said in his other topic on the DS board, you can use it as an item for a free casting of Holy anytime in battle. If you get Kain's Spirit up via augments, that can be a seriously painful form of magic damage, which Cecil himself lacks (sans Ultima). I mean, it's not as useful for his job as a Dragoon as Ragnarok was for Cecil's Paladin job, but still pretty awesome, a freecast item of a high-MP spell. You can also use Item Lore to boost the damage the casting of Holy does.
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#4DeusMortem(Topic Creator)Posted 7/10/2013 2:04:17 AM
Nice trick there with item lore boosting holy from hl. Does that mean 9999+ damage most of the time? Still, I guess the casting time is high, plus borderline all tough enemies seem resistant to holy.

It struck me that, if you exclude onion sword (which most won't get their hands on) Rydia is the best meleer in the game, which is ridiculous in my book (and not intended?). Dragon Whisker is Wyvern Lance + good paralyse chance and half physical dmg (back row double atk technically).
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I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
#5Chaosmaster00Posted 7/10/2013 4:10:27 AM
Actually, Rosa is a better attacker than Rydia; Artemis Bow/Arrow has the dragonslayer damage boost to dragons, and sdeals full damage from backrow, and with Rosa's Aim skill, she never misses either, ensuring unfaltering DPS. The only downside is no Paralyze, but you should be using Stop or Hold if that's all you want out of it. Rosa is the best meleer in the game against dragons. :P
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#6Chaosmaster00Posted 7/10/2013 4:15:42 AM(edited)
Also, Kain + Holy Lance + 99 Spirit, with augments set up as Holy Lance/Counter/Item Lore/Draw Attacks, and auto-Defending, is pretty awesome. Swap DA for Limit Break for a little more oomph, he hits 9999 easy with 99 Spirit.
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#7DeusMortem(Topic Creator)Posted 7/10/2013 4:35:42 AM
Nice! So what's the overall damage with that setup if you have LB on him? I guess the frequent resistance to holy hurts it ...

I actually didn't bother with Rosa's bows since they require arrows (I wasn't sure how the arrow system worked; I never used any of the more rare ones since I figured you'd lose them permanently, but perhaps you have an infinite amount of a type as long as you have one of it). Rosa might have the better damage but paralyze is a really nice bonus. I figured aim took longer time than regular attacks so I never bothered with it.
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I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
#8DeusMortem(Topic Creator)Posted 7/10/2013 4:48:44 AM
Tried it now. 8300 damage against the Armored Construct. Would've been 16600 with item lore I assume. NICE! It takes way too long to even be remotely useful as an attack, but as a counter, God yes! However ... is it even possible to use items as counters? Thing is, IIRC I used Stardust as counter against the Princess Flans, but when I have tried to do it lately all I get is a "Counter: Attack". Same actually goes for ????'s Love too, though. Very strange.
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I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
#9Chaosmaster00Posted 7/10/2013 9:43:15 AM
The item has to be at the top of your augment list. If you have Item or a non-direct augment (AKA, things like Black Magic, Bardsong, Ninjutsu, etc.), it will just use Counter Attack.

When you have Holy Lance equipped, press right to go into your Items list (or however you do to set specific items on your augments list); Holy Lance will be the first option. Set it as your first (top) augment, and when you counter with him, he will use Holy with it.

The best part: not just enemies set off counters. If you have another member Attack him, he will counter with it as well onto the attacking character; slap Reflect on that person, Item Lore on Kain, and Limit Break, with Holy Lance up top, and you can get some seriously powerful and fast damage up.
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#10DeusMortem(Topic Creator)Posted 7/10/2013 10:41:55 AM
Wow, that's some amazing stuff right there! I suppose doing that saves you from triggering Proto's counter, right?
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I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...