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Do you want IVs (Individual Values) to be removed from Pokemon games?

#41SkyCrackersPosted 1/14/2013 8:28:17 PM
While they're at it, why don't they remove EV's as well? EV training doesn't take any skill, it's just pointless grinding.

Seriously guys, what's wrong with every pokemon having variations in their stats as long as it's feasible for serious players to get max or near-max IV's? If you really are that against putting in menial work to get a stronger party, then you shouldn't be playing RPG's in the first place. Or you should only battle on pokemon simulators.
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#42mada7Posted 1/14/2013 8:52:25 PM
I think they should be kept but be more visible and be modifiable
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#43ClassyOldHatPosted 1/14/2013 9:20:57 PM
SkyCrackers posted...
Seriously guys, what's wrong with every pokemon having variations in their stats as long as it's feasible for serious players to get max or near-max IV's?


First, most players who want them gone have the assumption that Game Freak will never implement a system for obtaining them that isn't, for all intents and purposes, completely luck based. In other words, they believe that it is more likely for Gamefreak to completely remove IVs than to make it feasible to obtain max or near-max IVs. As it is right now, it is certainly not feasible, and given GameFreak's seeming reluctance to change ANYTHING that's been established unless it's completely removed (how else can you explain Nidoqueen's mysterious infertility?), so I don't really blame them for thinking this way.

Still, I imagine most players who wanted them gone would still be satisfied if IVs were controllable.

While they're at it, why don't they remove EV's as well? EV training doesn't take any skill, it's just pointless grinding... If you really are that against putting in menial work to get a stronger party, then you shouldn't be playing RPG's in the first place.


Second, EVs and IVs are not in the least comparable, as the first post acknowledges
EVs and Natures promote hard work and reward people who put time into raising their Pokemon. EVs are 100% controllable... IVs reward people who happen to be lucky, or cheat


EV training is a grind, yes, but 1: you have to strategize how you "spend" your EVs; you can't have everything, so you have to pick what you really need. With IVs, no thought goes into it whatsoever; barring Hidden Power or Trick Room, the only IV spread any player not intentionally handicapping themselves would pick is 31 across the board... If they COULD pick, which leads to number 2: EV training, like leveling up, is a grind with a tangible objective and a maximum number of things to be "ground" through. The only randomness that may slow down the process is randomness in waiting for certain wild Pokemon to appear, and even that only applies to a few stats.

At the absolute maximum, it will take 510 battles to fully EV train a Pokemon. If you know the right shortcuts, you can cruise through 32 battles and have your EV training completed like that. At absolute maximum, the average Pokemon will need to fight about 800,000-125,000 battles (assuming that EVERY battle gave only 1 EXP.).

IVs, however, are random, as we have repeatedly established. As such, the grind can theoretically go on forever, even if you're only settling for an IV of 20 or greater in stats that matter. What is the absolute maximum number of eggs that must be hatched to produce a baby with even 20+ across the board? There is no such number.

You say we shouldn't play RPGs if we aren't willing to grind. But let me ask you; would you be willing to grind through a game where fighting the same enemy, under the same circumstances, can, at random, yield 1 EXP, 1,000,000 EXP, no EXP, or Negative EXP, complete with "leveling down?"
#44perfectchaos83Posted 1/14/2013 9:45:16 PM
You say that, but then there are EV spreads on Smogon that list the exact numbers of various stats to guarantee either a one or two hit KO on vital competition, or the exact number of defense EVs needed to survive such and such an attack, while avoiding having excess EVs in a stat that wouldn't truly need any more, meaning they can be put to use in other stats.

This would imply that there are times where even a difference as little as four stat points make the difference between guaranteed a OHKO or a two hit KO when the Battle RNG decides to laugh at you.


And most of the time those are very specific circumstances Mostly in regards to specific threats, and that's where a bit of strategy comes in with choosing IVs. Unless you are going for a Specific Hidden Power, getting good IVs is easy to do after the first time. The only important IV in the long run is Speed and the dominant attacking stat.

Regardless of whether it is "too easy" or "too hard" really doesn't matter. It's GF's vision to have IVs the way they are.

On the subject of hidden power... Choosing it's type and/or having it base 70 BP all the time totally defeats the purpose and meaning behind the move.
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#45MournfulLustPosted 1/14/2013 9:58:01 PM
I agree in removing the IVs and think up another way to calculate a Pokemon's Hidden Power type and power. Or they could at the very least change the IVs to go from 0 up to 15. Wouldn't be so bad then.
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#46_Sazando_Posted 1/14/2013 9:59:19 PM
ONLY scrubs whine about IVs.
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#47ShortietheshortPosted 1/14/2013 10:19:35 PM
ClassyOldHat posted...

First, most players who want them gone have the assumption that Game Freak will never implement a system for obtaining them that isn't, for all intents and purposes, completely luck based. In other words, they believe that it is more likely for Gamefreak to completely remove IVs than to make it feasible to obtain max or near-max IVs. As it is right now, it is certainly not feasible, and given GameFreak's seeming reluctance to change ANYTHING that's been established unless it's completely removed (how else can you explain Nidoqueen's mysterious infertility?), so I don't really blame them for thinking this way.

Still, I imagine most players who wanted them gone would still be satisfied if IVs were controllable.

While they're at it, why don't they remove EV's as well? EV training doesn't take any skill, it's just pointless grinding... If you really are that against putting in menial work to get a stronger party, then you shouldn't be playing RPG's in the first place.


Second, EVs and IVs are not in the least comparable, as the first post acknowledges
EVs and Natures promote hard work and reward people who put time into raising their Pokemon. EVs are 100% controllable... IVs reward people who happen to be lucky, or cheat


EV training is a grind, yes, but 1: you have to strategize how you "spend" your EVs; you can't have everything, so you have to pick what you really need. With IVs, no thought goes into it whatsoever; barring Hidden Power or Trick Room, the only IV spread any player not intentionally handicapping themselves would pick is 31 across the board... If they COULD pick, which leads to number 2: EV training, like leveling up, is a grind with a tangible objective and a maximum number of things to be "ground" through. The only randomness that may slow down the process is randomness in waiting for certain wild Pokemon to appear, and even that only applies to a few stats.

At the absolute maximum, it will take 510 battles to fully EV train a Pokemon. If you know the right shortcuts, you can cruise through 32 battles and have your EV training completed like that. At absolute maximum, the average Pokemon will need to fight about 800,000-125,000 battles (assuming that EVERY battle gave only 1 EXP.).

IVs, however, are random, as we have repeatedly established. As such, the grind can theoretically go on forever, even if you're only settling for an IV of 20 or greater in stats that matter. What is the absolute maximum number of eggs that must be hatched to produce a baby with even 20+ across the board? There is no such number.

You say we shouldn't play RPGs if we aren't willing to grind. But let me ask you; would you be willing to grind through a game where fighting the same enemy, under the same circumstances, can, at random, yield 1 EXP, 1,000,000 EXP, no EXP, or Negative EXP, complete with "leveling down?"


First of all, the absolute minimum for having a completely EV trained poke is (without pokerus in the calculation) approx.... zero. If you don't know how, then you have either never played Black/white 2 or are not playing the games the way you are intended to. Secondly, There is no such thing as random. If you pay any attention to the npcs (i know right talking to npcs in a rpg) then you will see that there are so many ways to check IVs in game. It's not much more hidden then the formula for damage calculation. What you want to complain about that too? Now if you do as the npcs say in the game (again talking to npcs in an rpg...) then they will explain to you how to get better IVs during the breeding process. If you are really hatching 100+ eggs, then you don't know how to bred properly, or even the purpose of breeding in the first place. Have you even played Black/white 2?
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#48ClassyOldHatPosted 1/14/2013 10:54:04 PM
Shortietheshort posted...
First of all, the absolute minimum for having a completely EV trained poke is (without pokerus in the calculation) approx.... zero. If you don't know how, then you have either never played Black/white 2 or are not playing the games the way you are intended to.


Note that I did not say that 32 battles was the absolute minimum. Please don't put words in my mouth. Even ignoring the EV vendors in Join Avenue, (which I normally do, because I enjoy EV grinding anyway) it's quite possible to max your EVs in less than 32 battles if you know of the more potent hotspots.

Secondly, There is no such thing as random.


True. True randomness is quite impossible for a developer to make, so these games rely on a pseudo-random algorithm based on the DS/3DS clock, which creates the illusion of randomness for all but the most tech-savvy players.

But I get the feeling this isn't what you meant.

If you pay any attention to the npcs (i know right talking to npcs in a rpg) then you will see that there are so many ways to check IVs in game. It's not much more hidden then the formula for damage calculation. What you want to complain about that too?


Were you perhaps meaning to address a different poster? None of my complaints related to the difficulty of discovering IVs. Though, "Many different ways?" There is the IV judge in the Battle Subway, and the Hidden Power Checker, but to my knowledge there is no other way to know besides comparing stats at a high level. Nice strawman on every level though, if you were addressing me.

Now if you do as the npcs say in the game (again talking to npcs in an rpg...) then they will explain to you how to get better IVs during the breeding process. If you are really hatching 100+ eggs, then you don't know how to bred properly, or even the purpose of breeding in the first place. Have you even played Black/white 2?


Now this is just straight up false on all fronts. I have talked to EVERY NPC in both B/W and B2/W2, and none of them mentions ANYTHING about Power Item Breeding, or IV breeding in general.

Second, multiple tech-savvy players have ripped into this game's very code and have confirmed how IVs are decided during breeding. First, if a Parent is holding a Power item, the IV of the stat the item affects will be guaranteed to be passed to the child. Second, two more of the IVs of either parents are selected AT RANDOM to be passed to the child as well. If the Power Item is not in effect, then a RANDOM third IV will be selected from one of the parents AT RANDOM. The remaining 3 IVs of the child are each assigned a number from 0 to 31 AT RANDOM.

Serebii, Smogon, Marrilland, and dozens of other Pokemon sites run by code-savvy players all state that this is the process used to determine IVs. Unless you can present screenshots of these NPCs, and explain the "Proper breeding process" to us, you don't really have a leg to stand on, compared to them.
#49Infectedglore2Posted 1/15/2013 1:30:51 AM
IVs should just be easier to control. And lol crushing casuals is literally the best thing about Pokemon especially when their legendaries get crushed by NUs.
#50BountyanPosted 1/15/2013 1:37:04 AM
Yes. EVs and Natures are good though. I don't like IVs because it's a waste of time and can make one Pokemon straight up worse than another.
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