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Stealth Rock poll

#11overmaxxPosted 1/26/2013 6:27:50 PM
Remove it from most movepools.

Seriously, the fact that Pokemon who learn Stealth Rock outnumber Pokemon who learn Rapid Spin like 20:1 is very, very stupid.
#12VenustraphobiaPosted 1/26/2013 6:29:49 PM
To be honest, I find Stealth Rock to be the most aggravating move in the franchise, more so than Double Team. So many excellent fire and flying types are rendered "dangerous to use" because of this one move. At least with spikes it takes three turns of setting up for it to be a noticeable threat, and with poison spikes, all it takes is a poison Pokemon's switch in. I strongly dislike the fact that if wanted to use, say, Moltres competitively, I'd be almost mandatory to save a slot on my team for a Pokemon with rapid spin, which takes up a move slot in the process as well.

I know there are going to be plenty of people who disagree with my thoughts, but I say just get rid of it completely.
#13Chao777Posted 1/26/2013 6:34:29 PM
BolognaSammich posted...
Chao777 posted...
Honestly?

Make it Ground-Type.

Yes, we have Spikes but the moves are fundamentally different so it would still find its usage. The difference is that Flying-Types are not crippled, and Ground in general is easier to take care of. Still plenty of ways to use it if it's Ground-Type, but not as bad as its current iteration.


would air balloons make it ineffective? if not, this could possibly bring heatran down to UU.


Air Balloons work like Levitate, right? If so, yes.
#14BolognaSammich(Topic Creator)Posted 1/26/2013 6:35:20 PM
Venustraphobia posted...
To be honest, I find Stealth Rock to be the most aggravating move in the franchise, more so than Double Team. So many excellent fire and flying types are rendered "dangerous to use" because of this one move. At least with spikes it takes three turns of setting up for it to be a noticeable threat, and with poison spikes, all it takes is a poison Pokemon's switch in. I strongly dislike the fact that if wanted to use, say, Moltres competitively, I'd be almost mandatory to save a slot on my team for a Pokemon with rapid spin, which takes up a move slot in the process as well.

I know there are going to be plenty of people who disagree with my thoughts, but I say just get rid of it completely.


Well volcarona proves that even with the 50% stealth rock hit, you can see widespread usage. but that could just be a testament to how good volcarona is.
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#15ClassyOldHatPosted 1/26/2013 8:31:38 PM(edited)
I voted for "absorbed by rock types," though I wouldn't mind it having fixed damage and essentially becoming a rock-type Spikes.

Really, Stealth Rock is the most brainlessly good of the entry hazards, and it's risk/reward ratio is incredibly low. There's a reason there were never any topics on Spikes or Toxic Spikes being OP in previous generations.

Spikes
Learned by 16 Fully Evolved (FE) Pokemon
Risks:

3 turns required for maximum damage output.
One type and two abilities immune to it.
More difficult to set up if spun away.

Reward:

1/8,1/6, or 1/4 damage, depending on turns risked.

The most reasonable risk/reward ratio, IMO.

Toxic Spikes
Learned by 14 FE Pokemon
Risks:

2 turns needed for Toxic effect.
Three types immune to it, and four abilities effectively immune.
Can be removed by Poison Types, without any damage.
Slightly hard to set up again if spun away

Reward:

Can poison or badly poison, depending on turns risked.

More proof that Gamefreak hates the poison type. Their entry hazard has the greatest risk/reward ratio, for no reason I can clearly see.

Stealth Rock
Learned by over (FE) 60 Pokemon. (!)
"Risks":
1 turn of set-up.
One ability is immune. Will do less damage than one set of Spikes to 3 of the 17 types.

Rewards

Does as much damage as one layer of Spikes to 10 of the 17 types.
Will do as much as 3 turns of Spikes set-up to 4 of the 17 types.
No type is truly immune.
Easily replaced if spun away.

Setting aside the one-turn set up and lack of immunities, which other hazards are denied, and the fact that types that resist Rock are much less common than those that are weak to it, just look at how many Pokemon get this move. With both Spikes, just finding a Pokemon that can use the move that fits in the tier you play and has good synergy with your team presents a significant obstacle to use. The remarkable ease with which Stealth Rock be slapped on to most any team, however, just gives it another overpowered facet.

The move completely destroys the viability of many Pokemon, and needs a nerf. I don't care if Charizard would still be NU without the move; SR can be used in any tier.

Before I end this post, here are some statistics to mill over.

Percentage of Pokemon, by type, that resist Rock type moves:

Steel: 5.86%
Ground: 9.09%
Fighting: 6.32%

Total: 21.27 %

Percentage of Pokemon, by type, that are weak to Rock type moves:

Flying: 12.94%
Ice: 4.78%
Bug: 9.71%
Fire: 7.40%

Total: 34.43%

Total FE Pokemon that take 1/32 damage from SR: 4

Total FE Pokemon that take 1/4 damage from SR: 13 (I'm tempted to count Scyther as well, given how he's popular in lower tiers and has the same BST as Scizor.)
#16Gsus_94Posted 1/26/2013 8:48:04 PM
It's highly unfair that an entry hazard could take 50% of your pokemon's health away!

I can imagine stealth rock being sent out on the field. Roar/whirlwhind is used and volcarona/scyther/Charizard/etc. is sent out and loses half of its HP. But the pokemon with roar walls that pokemon and does no damage. Roar is used again to get the 4x weak to Rock pokemon out of battle. Done. That pokemon is useless for the rest of the match if another pokemon on its team does not have rapid spin.
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