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So Smogon has banned Deoxys-D

#81RememberdanamePosted 2/28/2013 2:24:33 PM
From: pokemonzero | Posted: 2/27/2013 10:40:06 PM | #031
Forgot these 2
Freeze shock stab 140 Ice (use held item that makes 2 turn attack take 1 to make stronger)
Giga Impact 150

Is that really that much weaker than
Kyurem-W
Dragon Pulse-95
Ice Beam-95
Fusion Flare-100
Draco Meteor(I dont use so I dont know power )

wow u are such a noob
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#82RX0megaPosted 2/28/2013 2:28:33 PM
And I am perfectly fine with this. A Pokemon is Uber if it can:

a: Sweep a large portion of a team with little effort or set up.

b: It can stall a significant portion of a team with little effort or set-up.

c: It can provide a large degree of support with little effort.


Deoxys-D fits the last one fairly well, but also b to a certain extent. I see no problems with this ban. Frankly the only thing I am left puzzled by is why this didn't happen sooner.

Forgive me if I got those wrong, but I recall those being the things Smogon used to judge things by.
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#83GiftedACIIIPosted 2/28/2013 2:35:06 PM
pokemonzero posted...
does not surprise me.

nothing surprises me when Smogon is involved.
The same Smogon that put Kyurem-B as OU and Kyurem-W as Uber.
Why smogon it is the same pokemon same speed only difference is one has higher special stats and the other physical stats Same BST.


Yeah, doesn't surprise me that people are being ignorant as usual too. It doesn't matter about the BST total, its the combination of BST, where their stats are placed, movepool, ability, and typing. Yeah they have the same but the special attack are what makes it so much better as K-B doesn't have any attacks to abuse. Think Regigigas and Slaking who are in the bottom of NU despite having the same BST as Kyogre-the most used Pokemon in Ubers and statistically the strongest Pokemon ever. Also Breloom who is top 5 OU despite having the lowest BST in the tier, 460, lower than many many Pokemon in UU,RU, and NU like Charizard and all starters not named Blaziken, Venusaur, and Infernape. Also stuff like Chansey, Dusclops, and Porygon2 who have lower bsts than their final evos and still used as much and in the same tiers.


MWhat are Fusion Bolt & Outrage
Physical attacks
Fusion Bolt 100 power
Outrage 120 stab power

Forgot these 2
Freeze shock stab 140 Ice (use held item that makes 2 turn attack take 1 to make stronger)
Giga Impact 150

Is that really that much weaker than
Kyurem-W
Dragon Pulse-95
Ice Beam-95
Fusion Flare-100
Draco Meteor(I dont use so I dont know power )


Those are the only two. Freeze Shock and Giga Impact are practically useless moves in competitive. Power Herb works only once. 95 attacking moves that can be used reliably over and over again are a staple for all Pokemon. That's why Ice Beam>Blizzard outside of hail. Also Draco Meteor is 140 (like all attacks that harshly lowers sp.a ) but can be used at the get go every switch in and is still a 70 base move the next turn.
#84galaxiadarknessPosted 3/1/2013 8:58:58 AM
How is it broken to have a pokemon that gets to set up Stealth Rocks once? If you can 2HKO it (and many things can) you're usually looking at 1 layer of rocks. If the Doexys-D player tries anything fancy and the other guy attacks, well he gets killed without setting up anything. Regardless of anything else, havning a whole pokemon on your team that may get to set up a lot of hazards if the other guy lets him (and that's all) isn't broken. Deoxys-D exists to cast a few hazards and die.
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#85GiftedACIIIPosted 3/1/2013 9:19:42 AM
galaxiadarkness posted...
How is it broken to have a pokemon that gets to set up Stealth Rocks once? If you can 2HKO it (and many things can) you're usually looking at 1 layer of rocks. If the Doexys-D player tries anything fancy and the other guy attacks, well he gets killed without setting up anything. Regardless of anything else, havning a whole pokemon on your team that may get to set up a lot of hazards if the other guy lets him (and that's all) isn't broken. Deoxys-D exists to cast a few hazards and die.


No, not too many things can 2hko it. It would have to be very offensive and good players don't send out their most offensive Pokemon out first. Nothing can OHKO it. And most of the times it sounds more than just one stealth rock, usually a rock and at least one layer of spikes, where its hyper-o teams will then sweep.
#86pokemonzeroPosted 3/1/2013 10:08:34 AM
GiftedACIII posted...
pokemonzero posted...
does not surprise me.

nothing surprises me when Smogon is involved.
The same Smogon that put Kyurem-B as OU and Kyurem-W as Uber.
Why smogon it is the same pokemon same speed only difference is one has higher special stats and the other physical stats Same BST.


Yeah, doesn't surprise me that people are being ignorant as usual too. It doesn't matter about the BST total, its the combination of BST, where their stats are placed, movepool, ability, and typing. Yeah they have the same but the special attack are what makes it so much better as K-B doesn't have any attacks to abuse. Think Regigigas and Slaking who are in the bottom of NU despite having the same BST as Kyogre-the most used Pokemon in Ubers and statistically the strongest Pokemon ever. Also Breloom who is top 5 OU despite having the lowest BST in the tier, 460, lower than many many Pokemon in UU,RU, and NU like Charizard and all starters not named Blaziken, Venusaur, and Infernape. Also stuff like Chansey, Dusclops, and Porygon2 who have lower bsts than their final evos and still used as much and in the same tiers.


MWhat are Fusion Bolt & Outrage
Physical attacks
Fusion Bolt 100 power
Outrage 120 stab power

Forgot these 2
Freeze shock stab 140 Ice (use held item that makes 2 turn attack take 1 to make stronger)
Giga Impact 150

Is that really that much weaker than
Kyurem-W
Dragon Pulse-95
Ice Beam-95
Fusion Flare-100
Draco Meteor(I dont use so I dont know power )


Those are the only two. Freeze Shock and Giga Impact are practically useless moves in competitive. Power Herb works only once. 95 attacking moves that can be used reliably over and over again are a staple for all Pokemon. That's why Ice Beam>Blizzard outside of hail. Also Draco Meteor is 140 (like all attacks that harshly lowers sp.a ) but can be used at the get go every switch in and is still a 70 base move the next turn.


You missed the point. I don't care if Kyurem-B is banned or Kyurem-W is lowered to OU. I want Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W to be in the same tier.
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#87PBustedPosted 3/1/2013 10:14:38 AM
pokemonzero posted...

You missed the point. I don't care if Kyurem-B is banned or Kyurem-W is lowered to OU. I want Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W to be in the same tier.


Too bad what you want is neither good for the metagame or what anyone else wants. Kyurem-B is good in OU, its not even one of the good dragons of OU. Kyurem-W wipes everything and is way too overpowered for OU.
#88galaxiadarknessPosted 3/1/2013 10:15:28 AM
GiftedACIII posted...
galaxiadarkness posted...
How is it broken to have a pokemon that gets to set up Stealth Rocks once? If you can 2HKO it (and many things can) you're usually looking at 1 layer of rocks. If the Doexys-D player tries anything fancy and the other guy attacks, well he gets killed without setting up anything. Regardless of anything else, havning a whole pokemon on your team that may get to set up a lot of hazards if the other guy lets him (and that's all) isn't broken. Deoxys-D exists to cast a few hazards and die.


No, not too many things can 2hko it. It would have to be very offensive and good players don't send out their most offensive Pokemon out first. Nothing can OHKO it. And most of the times it sounds more than just one stealth rock, usually a rock and at least one layer of spikes, where its hyper-o teams will then sweep.


So Deoxys is broken because other strong pokemon will sweep after it? Isn't that the other Pokemon that are strong that are broken, not Deoxys-D? By using Deoxys-D, you are given an entire slot on your team to casting a couple hazards and then dying.

Deoxys-D is rendered completely moot by Espeon or Xatu, you can kill it before it causes too much damage, rapid spin exists, taunt exists. Why don't we just ban entry hazards altogether if 1 layer of rocks and 1 layer of spikes is broken.
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GameFAQs, where the term "Karma Sucks" doesn't apply.
#89spooky96Posted 3/1/2013 10:17:57 AM
I don't want to make fun of Smogon or anything, but really, it wasn't even that good in OU. Plus its usage statistics speaks for itself. It always used to be in to end of 30s.
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>_>
#90SerperiorThanUPosted 3/1/2013 10:21:24 AM
galaxiadarkness posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
galaxiadarkness posted...
How is it broken to have a pokemon that gets to set up Stealth Rocks once? If you can 2HKO it (and many things can) you're usually looking at 1 layer of rocks. If the Doexys-D player tries anything fancy and the other guy attacks, well he gets killed without setting up anything. Regardless of anything else, havning a whole pokemon on your team that may get to set up a lot of hazards if the other guy lets him (and that's all) isn't broken. Deoxys-D exists to cast a few hazards and die.


No, not too many things can 2hko it. It would have to be very offensive and good players don't send out their most offensive Pokemon out first. Nothing can OHKO it. And most of the times it sounds more than just one stealth rock, usually a rock and at least one layer of spikes, where its hyper-o teams will then sweep.


So Deoxys is broken because other strong pokemon will sweep after it? Isn't that the other Pokemon that are strong that are broken, not Deoxys-D? By using Deoxys-D, you are given an entire slot on your team to casting a couple hazards and then dying.

Deoxys-D is rendered completely moot by Espeon or Xatu, you can kill it before it causes too much damage, rapid spin exists, taunt exists. Why don't we just ban entry hazards altogether if 1 layer of rocks and 1 layer of spikes is broken.


This has been said multiple times in this thread and the Smogon discussion threads. Go read them instead. Deoxys-D has skill swap to make Espeon useless, and Magic Coat for Taunt. I guess you really don't know much about the metagame then as stealth rock and a few layers of spikes are crucial in turning 2hkos into ohkos and 3hkos into 2hkos for sweepers.