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Get rid of the Battle Subway and replace it with something fun please.

#11DarkKirby2500Posted 3/19/2013 12:42:15 PM
lazycomplife posted...
DarkKirby2500 posted...
Developers don't play Pokemon or follow the metagame. Nobody on the team that knows the metagame. Sales are fantastic and keep getting better despite this.


The creators of a game don't know their game. Okay.


As someone who follows quite a few games that are played competitively, I can tell you for certain most game developers do not know where the imbalance issues are in the game they made.
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1. The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. 2. They're all complacent sheeple.
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#12lazycomplifePosted 3/19/2013 1:54:40 PM
DarkKirby2500 posted...
lazycomplife posted...
DarkKirby2500 posted...
Developers don't play Pokemon or follow the metagame. Nobody on the team that knows the metagame. Sales are fantastic and keep getting better despite this.


The creators of a game don't know their game. Okay.


As someone who follows quite a few games that are played competitively, I can tell you for certain most game developers do not know where the imbalance issues are in the game they made.


Imbalance drives competition. Games that aren't completely balanced are more fun.
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Official Swinub
#13DarkKirby2500Posted 3/19/2013 1:59:05 PM
lazycomplife posted...
DarkKirby2500 posted...
lazycomplife posted...
DarkKirby2500 posted...
Developers don't play Pokemon or follow the metagame. Nobody on the team that knows the metagame. Sales are fantastic and keep getting better despite this.


The creators of a game don't know their game. Okay.


As someone who follows quite a few games that are played competitively, I can tell you for certain most game developers do not know where the imbalance issues are in the game they made.


Imbalance drives competition. Games that aren't completely balanced are more fun.


Are you saying Starcraft 2 was better off when almost every single tournament match was won by Terran rushes because the Zerg and Protoss physically had no way to deal with it?
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1. The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. 2. They're all complacent sheeple.
<==]-<(-_o)>-[==>
#14lazycomplifePosted 3/19/2013 2:13:55 PM
DarkKirby2500 posted...
lazycomplife posted...
DarkKirby2500 posted...
lazycomplife posted...
DarkKirby2500 posted...
Developers don't play Pokemon or follow the metagame. Nobody on the team that knows the metagame. Sales are fantastic and keep getting better despite this.


The creators of a game don't know their game. Okay.


As someone who follows quite a few games that are played competitively, I can tell you for certain most game developers do not know where the imbalance issues are in the game they made.


Imbalance drives competition. Games that aren't completely balanced are more fun.


Are you saying Starcraft 2 was better off when almost every single tournament match was won by Terran rushes because the Zerg and Protoss physically had no way to deal with it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e31OSVZF77w
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Official Swinub
#15SMASHKING84Posted 3/19/2013 2:19:16 PM
They need something like battle subway but with a different ban list and the ability to use duplicate items.
Because there's only a few useful items and not all of them are effective on all pokemon.
like who'd give shedinja lefties or life orb?
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#16DarkKirby2500Posted 3/19/2013 2:30:31 PM
lazycomplife posted...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e31OSVZF77w

There is no such thing as a concept or opinion that applies to every situation.

I'm asking you if you have ever watch the early Starcraft 2 tournaments, Starcraft 2, being the most popular competitively played game on the planet, where every Terran player was rushing and winning all the time because the Zerg and Protoss physically had no way to deal with it, and in your opinion, that improves the game.

I'm asking you if you follow competitively played games like Starcraft 2, Smash Bros. Melee, Smash Bros. Brawl, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, etc. and understand the difference between character variety, and imbalance.

I have heard the developer of Street Fighter 4 claim that in Street Fighter 4 AE, every match being Yun vs Yun was good for the game because imbalance give players someone to root against and try to beat, ask any player or viewer of the game, and they will tell you that's horse crap.

You're saying pick Phoenix or lose made Marvel vs. Capcom 3 better.

Because to me, it sounds like you're flaunting a concept you like without any knowledge about competitive games.
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1. The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. 2. They're all complacent sheeple.
<==]-<(-_o)>-[==>
#17jjars898Posted 3/19/2013 2:31:01 PM
Yes please yes. The whole concept of "restrictions" on battles makes no sense, unless without restrictions everyone would use some other single team. But I don't think removing hacks is in the realm of possibility. No game is so secure that it can't be hacked by dedicated (or bored) hackers.
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#18pokefanabc123Posted 3/19/2013 2:31:25 PM
Twinmold posted...
There's so much potential in the Battle Subway for fun but I honestly find the entire thing frustrating and terribly boring. The PWT is a lot more fair, fun and honestly a big step in the right direction, but still lacking somewhat.

1. 3v3 singles is designed to restrict your options and homogenize gameplay.

-------> The 3 Pokemon limit only hinders you and not your enemy. When playing the battle subway, your enemy isn't just the trainer you're facing, it's the entire subway of trainers. This means that while you only have 3 Pokemon, you're going to be facing pretty much any of them. This vastly reduces the number of options you have when team building. Less enemy Pokemon means fewer turns, and that means a faster game, which makes many strategies sub-optimal. The fact that you have to account for any number of different Pokemon means you have to build a team with very few weakness since you can't build a full team to cover them. This reduces the number of effective Pokemon drastically.

Seriously, look at this topic:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102593
Notice how little variety there is? How the majority of Pokemon are from the OU tier?3 v3's limits you to essentially brute forcing your way through the subway which is why there are so many Garchomp's, Volcarona's, and tailwind teams. Pokemon is about options and creative team building, so why does the battle subway implement mechanics that actively discourage both of those?

2. Subway hax makes the experience frustrating instead of competitive.

-------> Nuff said here. Does anybody actually enjoy the endless number of crits and constantly activating status effects?

Seriously, give us a 6v6 battle subway with no hax. You can keep the old subway 3v3 set, just add an extra train please. Options won't hurt.

I totoly agree with you the battle subway is really boring not mutch to do.
#19Twinmold(Topic Creator)Posted 3/19/2013 2:38:27 PM
lazycomplife, you're lucky I've already seen that video because I highly doubt anyone wants to watch a 7 minute video instead of reading a short paragraph.

The perfect imbalance is a utopian concept that does not, and will not ever exist. Not even the game of Chess is fair, as white goes before black and thus has an advantage. More complex games don't have the same issue as chess, but every game is imbalanced, but should strive for perfect equality. The perfect imbalance is actually just a concept of a shifting meta game where new popular strategies are defeated by the community reorienting it's own strategies to counter it. Of course that assumes that countering this strategy and having viable counters to other strategies is possible at once and the meta-game isn't becoming over-centralized. Strategic efforts must be made to balance games, and this may be an evolving process, but direct intervention on behalf of the developer is necessary. Even football has new rules changed and amended as time passes.
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#20lazycomplifePosted 3/19/2013 2:52:26 PM
DarkKirby2500 posted...
lazycomplife posted...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e31OSVZF77w

There is no such thing as a concept or opinion that applies to every situation.

I'm asking you if you have ever watch the early Starcraft 2 tournaments, Starcraft 2, being the most popular competitively played game on the planet, where every Terran player was rushing and winning all the time because the Zerg and Protoss physically had no way to deal with it, and in your opinion, that improves the game.

I'm asking you if you follow competitively played games like Starcraft 2, Smash Bros. Melee, Smash Bros. Brawl, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, etc. and understand the difference between character variety, and imbalance.

I have heard the developer of Street Fighter 4 claim that in Street Fighter 4 AE, every match being Yun vs Yun was good for the game because imbalance give players someone to root against and try to beat, ask any player or viewer of the game, and they will tell you that's horse crap.

You're saying pick Phoenix or lose made Marvel vs. Capcom 3 better.

Because to me, it sounds like you're flaunting a concept you like without any knowledge about competitive games.


u mad?
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Official Swinub