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If Charizard didn't get stoned would it be back in UU?

#41LenneValkiryePosted 4/4/2013 2:32:26 AM(edited)
Back on topic, I don't see Charizard being viable in UU with things like Kingdra, Zapdos, Swampert, Empoleon, Raikou, Snorlax and Flygon running rampant. The UU tier is overall very fire-unfriendly in this generation and the only fire types that are there compensate for it with their ridiculous attacking stats which Charizard lacks.

Maybe it would be decent in RU, but it faces competition from Moltres in that tier who has all around better stats except speed. Then again if SR didn't exist Moltres would most likely be UU.
#42Windyligth(Topic Creator)Posted 4/4/2013 2:49:52 AM
I'm from 4th gen doubles and wtf.

Are those things really UU now? What does it take to be OU?
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#43LexifoxPosted 4/4/2013 3:01:02 AM
Windyligth posted...
I'm from 4th gen doubles and wtf.

Are those things really UU now? What does it take to be OU?


Usage.
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#44LenneValkiryePosted 4/4/2013 3:06:04 AM(edited)
Windyligth posted...
Are those things really UU now? What does it take to be OU?


-being weak to SR (even 2x weak) without something else to compensate for it (i.e. Regenerator) strongly increases your chances to drop to UU
-in the past generation the "defult base speed for an offensive pokemon" used to be 100, now it's 108 (Terrakion and Keldeo's speed). If you have less than that you better have both good offensive stats and bulk
-speaking of bulk, anything with less than 90/90/90 is now considered "mediocre bulk"
-100 base attacking stats are considered a joke. You need at least 125 to be considered a good offensive pokemon
-Any defense-oriented pokemon without access to an instant recovery move isn't considered a wall. Bronzong fell to UU exactly because of that
-weather is the dominant force in the OU metagame, with rain and sand being the dominant ones. Sun abusers need to be exceptionally good, such as Volcarona and Venusaur, to be on par. Hail gets the short end of the stick, with only two serious abusers (Kyurem and Kyurem-B, the former being BL)
-if you're a water type, you better have a way to get past Ferrothorn. Suicune, Kingdra and Swampert can't, which is why they fell to UU
-your STAB moves need to have at least 100 base power to be considered "good". This is why Weavile fell to UU and Electivire to RU
-god help you if you are overall weak to passive damage. If you're weak to sand/hail, entry hazards and Toxic at the same time without having a way to compensate for that, chances are you won't see use in OU. This is why Victini is UU and Kyurem is BL, despite both f them hitting like trucks and having solid bulk.
#45Human-BeanPosted 4/4/2013 3:32:51 AM
LenneValkirye posted...
Windyligth posted...
Are those things really UU now? What does it take to be OU?


-being weak to SR (even 2x weak) without something else to compensate for it (i.e. Regenerator) strongly increases your chances to drop to UU
-in the past generation the "defult base speed for an offensive pokemon" used to be 100, now it's 108 (Terrakion and Keldeo's speed). If you have less than that you better have both good offensive stats and bulk
-speaking of bulk, anything with less than 90/90/90 is now considered "mediocre bulk"
-100 base attacking stats are considered a joke. You need at least 125 to be considered a good offensive pokemon
-Any defense-oriented pokemon without access to an instant recovery move isn't considered a wall. Bronzong fell to UU exactly because of that
-weather is the dominant force in the OU metagame, with rain and sand being the dominant ones. Sun abusers need to be exceptionally good, such as Volcarona and Venusaur, to be on par. Hail gets the short end of the stick, with only two serious abusers (Kyurem and Kyurem-B, the former being BL)
-if you're a water type, you better have a way to get past Ferrothorn. Suicune, Kingdra and Swampert can't, which is why they fell to UU
-your STAB moves need to have at least 100 base power to be considered "good". This is why Weavile fell to UU and Electivire to RU
-god help you if you are overall weak to passive damage. If you're weak to sand/hail, entry hazards and Toxic at the same time without having a way to compensate for that, chances are you won't see use in OU. This is why Victini is UU and Kyurem is BL, despite both f them hitting like trucks and having solid bulk.


I'm pretty sure it's usage.
#46LenneValkiryePosted 4/4/2013 3:47:22 AM
Human-Bean posted...
LenneValkirye posted...
Windyligth posted...
Are those things really UU now? What does it take to be OU?


-being weak to SR (even 2x weak) without something else to compensate for it (i.e. Regenerator) strongly increases your chances to drop to UU
-in the past generation the "defult base speed for an offensive pokemon" used to be 100, now it's 108 (Terrakion and Keldeo's speed). If you have less than that you better have both good offensive stats and bulk
-speaking of bulk, anything with less than 90/90/90 is now considered "mediocre bulk"
-100 base attacking stats are considered a joke. You need at least 125 to be considered a good offensive pokemon
-Any defense-oriented pokemon without access to an instant recovery move isn't considered a wall. Bronzong fell to UU exactly because of that
-weather is the dominant force in the OU metagame, with rain and sand being the dominant ones. Sun abusers need to be exceptionally good, such as Volcarona and Venusaur, to be on par. Hail gets the short end of the stick, with only two serious abusers (Kyurem and Kyurem-B, the former being BL)
-if you're a water type, you better have a way to get past Ferrothorn. Suicune, Kingdra and Swampert can't, which is why they fell to UU
-your STAB moves need to have at least 100 base power to be considered "good". This is why Weavile fell to UU and Electivire to RU
-god help you if you are overall weak to passive damage. If you're weak to sand/hail, entry hazards and Toxic at the same time without having a way to compensate for that, chances are you won't see use in OU. This is why Victini is UU and Kyurem is BL, despite both f them hitting like trucks and having solid bulk.


I'm pretty sure it's usage.


And I'm pretty sure the question was "what does it take to have enough usage to be OU?".
Those are pretty much the reasons.
#47MalkyeaImbakPosted 4/4/2013 4:27:17 AM
Charizard is fine in any tier(as most pokemon are) all you need are good support pokemon. Stand alone pokes..lead charizard is amazing imo (Tailwind, fire blast(Or if you're badass blast burn) counter, air slash) this set has worked wonders for me. Counter on pokemon that run stone edge, and blaze + blast burn to deal massive damage to the next pokemon (Assuming it doesn't have a priority move) tail wind if you expect a sucker punch or if you can't deal damage to the next incoming pokemon (Rock types or special defensive water)

but that's just me I enjoy being creative and not catering to basic smogon sets.

Also full out physical DDance zard or 4 attack moves and get a baton pass from mew (A +2 atk and maybe a speed boost) and zard is full sweeping

acrobatics, fire pawnch/flare blitz, eq, thunderpawnch
#48LenneValkiryePosted 4/4/2013 4:32:16 AM
MalkyeaImbak posted...
Charizard is fine in any tier(as most pokemon are) all you need are good support pokemon. Stand alone pokes..lead charizard is amazing imo (Tailwind, fire blast(Or if you're badass blast burn) counter, air slash) this set has worked wonders for me. Counter on pokemon that run stone edge, and blaze + blast burn to deal massive damage to the next pokemon (Assuming it doesn't have a priority move) tail wind if you expect a sucker punch or if you can't deal damage to the next incoming pokemon (Rock types or special defensive water)

but that's just me I enjoy being creative and not catering to basic smogon sets.

Also full out physical DDance zard or 4 attack moves and get a baton pass from mew (A +2 atk and maybe a speed boost) and zard is full sweeping

acrobatics, fire pawnch/flare blitz, eq, thunderpawnch


Your entire post lost credibility for even mentioning that attack.
#49GalladetheGreatPosted 4/4/2013 4:41:50 AM
CakeOfLies posted...
JacK_1S_BK posted...
Shadow_StarWolf posted...
No because Stone Edge, Rock Slide, etc.

As well as terrible stats, terrible movepool, etc.


Charizard doesn't have terrible stats and a terrible movepool though.


He's too slow to be a sweeper, too weak to be a wall-breaker or tank, and can't take enough hits to be a wall or tank.


But its movepool is surprisingly wide. Still, not UU material.
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#50Emerald_MeliosPosted 4/4/2013 4:51:09 AM
Vycoul posted...
Drugs hold so many Pokemon back, it's a real shame.


Something needs to be done about Pikachu's carbos addiction.