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Why do people want everything to be convenient in this game?

#21Arne83Posted 4/5/2013 3:20:00 AM
Twilight_Sonata posted...
Arne83 posted...
... I'm not even going say anything.

Then no progress is going to be made in the conversation.


Ok then... if I have to actually point out the flaws in your statement, I will.

First off, you state that Pokemon is guilty of... and I quote "Denial of information critical to progress". But later, with in the exact same paragraph, you state that said information is not needed to complete the main story of the game, where actual progress is made. So, really... the game does not withhold any information that required for progression. I mean... you said it yourself... you can complete the game with out knowing it. So how is this information "critical to progress" if you can beat the game without knowing it?
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Let's just pretend this says something witty.
#22RX02BansheePosted 4/5/2013 3:21:36 AM
Arne83 posted...
RX02Banshee posted...
Fake difficulty =/= skill based difficulty


Skill based difficulty is good, fake difficulty is just the sign of a lazy dev.


Let me ask you... how exactly do you define fake difficultly? I'm just curious.


Anything that basically is designed to be tedious rather than a test of true skill. Examples would include dying once and then being asked to repeat the entire level just to get back to the boss of it despite the fact you fairly obviously can do the level, and things based around luck rather than talent (so, the RNG in general would fit this. Since there is no skill involved in breeding once you know how, it is simply time consuming rolls of the RNG dice to hope you get the result you want).
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#23LexifoxPosted 4/5/2013 3:23:41 AM
Arne83 posted...
Twilight_Sonata posted...
Arne83 posted...
... I'm not even going say anything.

Then no progress is going to be made in the conversation.


Ok then... if I have to actually point out the flaws in your statement, I will.

First off, you state that Pokemon is guilty of... and I quote "Denial of information critical to progress". But later, with in the exact same paragraph, you state that said information is not needed to complete the main story of the game, where actual progress is made. So, really... the game does not withhold any information that required for progression. I mean... you said it yourself... you can complete the game with out knowing it. So how is this information "critical to progress" if you can beat the game without knowing it?


Remember back in R/B/Y how could you beat the game, but they never fully explained to you the power and effects of your moves, or if a move was physical/special? You beat the game, but you had no idea if Surf was stronger than BubbleBeam or if Body Slam was worth teaching, etc.?
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"Murder of the living is tragic, but murder of the idea is unforgivable." - Janus, speaker of the synod
#24Arne83Posted 4/5/2013 3:26:36 AM(edited)
Lexifox posted...
Arne83 posted...
Twilight_Sonata posted...
Arne83 posted...
... I'm not even going say anything.

Then no progress is going to be made in the conversation.


Ok then... if I have to actually point out the flaws in your statement, I will.

First off, you state that Pokemon is guilty of... and I quote "Denial of information critical to progress". But later, with in the exact same paragraph, you state that said information is not needed to complete the main story of the game, where actual progress is made. So, really... the game does not withhold any information that required for progression. I mean... you said it yourself... you can complete the game with out knowing it. So how is this information "critical to progress" if you can beat the game without knowing it?


Remember back in R/B/Y how could you beat the game, but they never fully explained to you the power and effects of your moves, or if a move was physical/special? You beat the game, but you had no idea if Surf was stronger than BubbleBeam or if Body Slam was worth teaching, etc.?


Yes, but once again... you didn't need to know it. It wasn't critical to progress.
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Let's just pretend this says something witty.
#25pokemon2pokerPosted 4/5/2013 3:27:41 AM
LightningAce11 posted...
Don't you want pokemon to be at least a little difficult?


I don't understand what you're trying to say. I'm gonna assume you're trolling because there's nothing easy about competitive battling.
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#26TenzhiPosted 4/5/2013 3:29:10 AM
LightningAce11 posted...
Don't you want pokemon to be at least a little difficult?


Not really. Indeed, I don't particularly crave difficulty in any game I play.
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Cheating has gone hand-in-hand with gaming for centuries. Video games in particular often have cheats built right into the game.
#27BlazingRainPosted 4/5/2013 3:38:54 AM
Complaining about random IVs is pretty hilarious.

Pokemon is at its heart an animal catching/breeding simulation, and IVs are a representation of genetic variance. Competitive battling is really not the primary focus of the game, and if it's so important for you, then use RNG manipulation or some other method to get those perfect Pokemon.
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#28LexifoxPosted 4/5/2013 3:46:38 AM
Arne83 posted...
Yes, but once again... you didn't need to know it. It wasn't critical to progress.


You're taking this wording a bit too literally. However, if you must, imagine a puzzle that you solve by basically brute forcing the solution. You use trial and error to complete it. Any information that could be used to solve the puzzle is kept from the player. You need to know the correct combination of numbers to progress, but you are never told what they might be and you're basically stuck hitting "000, 001, 002, 003, 004, etc." because of this.
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"Murder of the living is tragic, but murder of the idea is unforgivable." - Janus, speaker of the synod
#29Arne83Posted 4/5/2013 4:01:11 AM
Lexifox posted...
Arne83 posted...
Yes, but once again... you didn't need to know it. It wasn't critical to progress.


You're taking this wording a bit too literally. However, if you must, imagine a puzzle that you solve by basically brute forcing the solution. You use trial and error to complete it. Any information that could be used to solve the puzzle is kept from the player. You need to know the correct combination of numbers to progress, but you are never told what they might be and you're basically stuck hitting "000, 001, 002, 003, 004, etc." because of this.


I can get what you're saying. That would be really annoying and tedious as all f***. Based on the original statement, that I don't think I'm too literally, it's still not information that is required. Yes, it would be incredibly helpful... but you can still manage to get by with out knowing it. So no, I still don't see an example of denying information that is critical to progress.

I think a good example comes from... I absolutely love this game, so it pains me to speak of negatively... Final Fantasy IV. There is a part where you have to fight a boss known as the Dark Elf (If you've played this game, you might know where I'm going). There is an item you must get that is necessary to beat this boss. If you don't get it, you can't win... and the game never directly tells you how to get it. When I first played this game, I got stuck at this part for quite some time because I didn't even know this item existed, let alone that is was needed. That right there, is denying information critical of progress.
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Let's just pretend this says something witty.
#30DonniedonzPosted 4/5/2013 4:13:32 AM
pokemon2poker posted...
LightningAce11 posted...
Don't you want pokemon to be at least a little difficult?


I don't understand what you're trying to say. I'm gonna assume you're trolling because there's nothing easy about competitive battling.


Truth.

Though, of course, this doesn't apply to the main game.
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