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Is anyone else tired of tiers?

#71ColtCababaPosted 4/9/2013 5:16:11 PM
RollerBob posted...
The main problem I see with tiers, be with Pokémon or fighting games, is that it discourages players to just use who or whatever they want to have fun. With 649 to choose from (granted only final evos and legendaries are worth it really), everyone should be able to 6 Pokémon for their teams. Sure, people might be interested by abilities and moves, but the whole metagame would be eliminated. They could be pick whoever they want and then have fun.

Compared to fighting games however, Pokémon isn't that complicated to learn. Types, abilities, stats and moves are more manageable than combos, frame data and inputs. That should also encourage players to play the game.

Tiers, unfortunately, dictate what's good and bad... and it can screw some people's teams due to that.


SSBB. Everyone uses Marth, Meta Knight, Snake, Sonic if not banned, or Falco. It annoys the hell out of me. I use Ganondorf to Meteor Smash the hell out of all of them and give a middle finger to the tier lists.
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#72EchoPhoenixPosted 4/9/2013 5:32:10 PM
RollerBob posted...
The main problem I see with tiers, be with Pokémon or fighting games, is that it discourages players to just use who or whatever they want to have fun.


If people want to use any Pokemon they want, they can just play Ubers. Same goes for fighting games, anyone can use whoever they want, the tiers just show how well that character would usually perform in a competitive setting.

If someone really wants to use a certain character or Pokemon, the tiers don't stop the player from using them (except for tournaments based on tier levels).
#73RollerBobPosted 4/9/2013 5:40:24 PM
ColtCababa posted...
RollerBob posted...
The main problem I see with tiers, be with Pokémon or fighting games, is that it discourages players to just use who or whatever they want to have fun. With 649 to choose from (granted only final evos and legendaries are worth it really), everyone should be able to 6 Pokémon for their teams. Sure, people might be interested by abilities and moves, but the whole metagame would be eliminated. They could be pick whoever they want and then have fun.

Compared to fighting games however, Pokémon isn't that complicated to learn. Types, abilities, stats and moves are more manageable than combos, frame data and inputs. That should also encourage players to play the game.

Tiers, unfortunately, dictate what's good and bad... and it can screw some people's teams due to that.


SSBB. Everyone uses Marth, Meta Knight, Snake, Sonic if not banned, or Falco. It annoys the hell out of me. I use Ganondorf to Meteor Smash the hell out of all of them and give a middle finger to the tier lists.

I use Ike, Wolf, Zelda, Captain Falcon and Ice Climbers... what does THAT make me XD ?

Point is that tiers are just stupid. They just show us how unbalanced a game can be.

If all fully evolved non-Legendary Pokémon were as powerful as Garchomp, there wouldn't be any tier at all. I'm stretching it, but still...

I played TvC a lot and I picked both Zero and Tekkaman Blade, because they were my favorite characters. Only after I've learned that they were OP. I picked Zero because, well, it's MMX Zero, not MMZ Zero like in SvC Chaos. That was a new character that I instantly picked up without thinking of tiers.

I play Persona 4 Arena and I like to use Elizabeth, who's a low-tier character according to other players. Like I care about this, really... eat some Megidoalon now. I also play Teddie, who I think is mid-tier, but still, it's Teddie.

UMvC3 really screwed me up though. I'd like to use an Avengers team or a Darkstalkers team... but apparently, tghese combinations are downright atrocious.

Tiers also go deeper with how a character should be played, which isn't something everyone wants to go through. Characters or Pokémon don't come with an instruction manual, it's something you need to discover for yourself and make it your own.
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#74Garioshi(Topic Creator)Posted 4/9/2013 5:46:40 PM
ColtCababa posted...
RollerBob posted...
The main problem I see with tiers, be with Pokémon or fighting games, is that it discourages players to just use who or whatever they want to have fun. With 649 to choose from (granted only final evos and legendaries are worth it really), everyone should be able to 6 Pokémon for their teams. Sure, people might be interested by abilities and moves, but the whole metagame would be eliminated. They could be pick whoever they want and then have fun.

Compared to fighting games however, Pokémon isn't that complicated to learn. Types, abilities, stats and moves are more manageable than combos, frame data and inputs. That should also encourage players to play the game.

Tiers, unfortunately, dictate what's good and bad... and it can screw some people's teams due to that.


SSBB. Everyone uses Marth, Meta Knight, Snake, Sonic if not banned, or Falco. It annoys the hell out of me. I use Ganondorf to Meteor Smash the hell out of all of them and give a middle finger to the tier lists.


Hey, I use Lucas (my best main), Marth, Falco, Captain Falcon, Ike, and Lucario. As I said before, I'm the 3rd or 4th best (out of about 20 users) on a secret board, even with those (mostly) low-tier mains.
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#75wahaha199Posted 4/9/2013 5:47:19 PM
What does a tire have to do with pokemon?
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#76ColtCababaPosted 4/9/2013 5:50:20 PM
Garioshi posted...
ColtCababa posted...
RollerBob posted...
The main problem I see with tiers, be with Pokémon or fighting games, is that it discourages players to just use who or whatever they want to have fun. With 649 to choose from (granted only final evos and legendaries are worth it really), everyone should be able to 6 Pokémon for their teams. Sure, people might be interested by abilities and moves, but the whole metagame would be eliminated. They could be pick whoever they want and then have fun.

Compared to fighting games however, Pokémon isn't that complicated to learn. Types, abilities, stats and moves are more manageable than combos, frame data and inputs. That should also encourage players to play the game.

Tiers, unfortunately, dictate what's good and bad... and it can screw some people's teams due to that.


SSBB. Everyone uses Marth, Meta Knight, Snake, Sonic if not banned, or Falco. It annoys the hell out of me. I use Ganondorf to Meteor Smash the hell out of all of them and give a middle finger to the tier lists.


Hey, I use Lucas (my best main), Marth, Falco, Captain Falcon, Ike, and Lucario. As I said before, I'm the 3rd or 4th best (out of about 20 users) on a secret board, even with those (mostly) low-tier mains.


I usually just use Kirby, Donkey Kong, Wario, Mario, Toon Link, Wolf, Captain Falcon, PKMN Trainer, Ness, Game & Watch, & Ganondorf. In short, mostly mid-tier characters, the ones that casual players use and are not cheap.
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#77ArcasaurusPosted 4/9/2013 6:01:16 PM
RollerBob posted...
Point is that tiers are just stupid. They just show us how unbalanced a game can be.


Which is bad how? The games would be unbalanced anyway, but tiers show ways to play that would be more fair (fighting games), or in settings where there would be more diversity (Pokemon).

I played TvC a lot and I picked both Zero and Tekkaman Blade, because they were my favorite characters. Only after I've learned that they were OP. I picked Zero because, well, it's MMX Zero, not MMZ Zero like in SvC Chaos. That was a new character that I instantly picked up without thinking of tiers.

I play Persona 4 Arena and I like to use Elizabeth, who's a low-tier character according to other players. Like I care about this, really... eat some Megidoalon now. I also play Teddie, who I think is mid-tier, but still, it's Teddie.


So you gave two examples of tiers not affecting how you play at all. Why are you so against tiers, then?

UMvC3 really screwed me up though. I'd like to use an Avengers team or a Darkstalkers team... but apparently, tghese combinations are downright atrocious.


To be fair, that's less of a problem with tiers as it is with how UMvC3 is a team-based fighting game, so part of the problem would be the characters' synergy together. Comparing with something like Pokemon, using a team of all Fire starters + Simisear would have problems regardless of tiers.

That being said, I still don't see how tiers affect your decision whether to play like that or not. It's still up to you. It's not like having no tiers would make those team combinations any better.

Tiers also go deeper with how a character should be played, which isn't something everyone wants to go through. Characters or Pokémon don't come with an instruction manual, it's something you need to discover for yourself and make it your own.


If people don't want to go through that stuff, then they don't have to. Besides, tiers are developed as more people learn the game better. Any information about characters that gets compiled as a resource is a good thing, because it helps more players become better at the game. If your problem is with lazy scrubs who just copy other people/teams just to get easy wins, that's a player issue, not a tier issue.

Btw, Melee > Brawl
#78endergamer537Posted 4/9/2013 6:05:58 PM
I play a lot as Pikachu and Ivysaur (Pokemon Trainer).
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#79pokemonfreak97Posted 4/9/2013 6:34:18 PM
Garioshi posted...
Gray_Areas posted...
Why?


Charizard.


Charizard, as an NU Pokémon, can be used in any tier. It is banned nowhere.
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#80Garioshi(Topic Creator)Posted 4/9/2013 6:46:45 PM
pokemonfreak97 posted...
Garioshi posted...
Gray_Areas posted...
Why?


Charizard.


Charizard, as an NU Pokémon, can be used in any tier. It is banned nowhere.


I was thinking more along the lines of, "People never shutting up about how much it sucks because of Stealth Rock even though Ho-Oh and Moltres have the same f***ing typing as it."
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