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It's clear that the most popular speculated type for Sylveon is Flying.

#71divinity_7Posted 4/11/2013 11:53:49 PM
Sorry for the double post, but going from your point of view:
Sylvan and nymph suggest a female normal type maybe?
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#72Twilight_SonataPosted 4/12/2013 12:13:46 AM
divinity_7 posted...
Look fairy, nymph and sylph up

I don't have to. I play a lot of Dungeons and Dragons and read a lot of fantasy literature. I know what those things are, and as far as faeries specifically go, whether they're depicted as predominantly feminine or not entirely depends on the type of fairy. I know that nymphs and sylphs are typically depicted as feminine, and I didn't contest that.

Also, the top line from the very link you provided (which I doubt you read as well):
"Sylvan or Silvan refers to an association with the woods. Specifically, that which inhabits the wood, is made of tree materials, or comprises the forest itself.".

Maybe you should read beyond the first two sentences to the part that's actually relevant. Picking up from where you left off, the majority of the rest of the page is about "Sylvan" used to refer to mythological fey:

"The term can also refer to a person who resides in the woods or a spirit of the wood. In mythology, the term also refers to deities or spirits of the woods.
[some minor etymology stuff]
Notable Examples:
In the Chronicles of Narnia, silvans are tree spirits, appearing primarily in the fourth book of the series, Prince Caspian. In J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth books, there is a division of Elves residing in forested realms referred to as Silvan Elves.
In the Dungeons & Dragons role playing game, Sylvan is the language of all magical creatures associated with the wilderness, such as fairies, dryads, centaurs and such.
In the computer game Heroes of Might and Magic V, Sylvan is a playable faction, featuring the Elves and other mythical forest creatures such as Sprites, Unicorns, Treants and Dragons.
In the computer role-playing game "Dragon Age: Origins," the player's party battles living trees known as Sylvans in the Brecillian Forest. In the lore of the game, the trees are actually possessed by demonic spirits which have gone mad because they are trapped in the tree without being able to see or hear.
In the MMORPG Dark Age of Camelot, the Sylvans are a playable race of humanoids from the realm of Hibernia, with bark-like skin and long, slender appendages.
In the popular toy line called Sylvanian Families, Sylvanian refers to the toy line earlier specializing in woodland creatures. It branched out to other animals later on.
In the MMORPG Guild Wars 2, Sylvari (a different spelling of Sylvan) are a playable race of botanical humanoids that are awakened from the Pale Tree."

Only one out of these eight notable examples doesn't have something to do with mythical woodland creatures.
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#73Twilight_SonataPosted 4/12/2013 12:13:49 AM
Yes, I am aware of its use in fantasy RPGs. The word itself, however, is much older and typically has the meaning quoted above. Contemporary fantasy literature just adopted it, and gave it a connotation to mystical creatures. This does not in any way discard the original meaning. Hence, i think sylvan/silvan is not where its name is from.

WTF? That's like saying that you don't think that "Nymph" fits in with "Fairy" and "Sylph" because Nymph can also mean an insect, which has nothing to do with faeries and sylphs. No, you don't get to do that, arbitrarily discard definitions and usages that are inconvenient to you.

Furthermore, if you did pronounce it ten times in a row, you would have noticed that your /f/ became a lenis consonant (/v/) in the process. This happens because of syllabic assimilation. This is not the place to discuss phonetics however.

Didn't have any trouble with it. Don't know what else to tell you. Either way, it wouldn't matter. That an F sounds sort of like a V sometimes isn't nearly enough to justify needing to change the actually letters. It's still unnecessary either way.

divinity_7 posted...
Sorry for the double post, but going from your point of view:
Sylvan and nymph suggest a female normal type maybe?

If I had to take a guess, it would be Normal, but I see no good reason to specify female. Eevee has a seven-to-one male-to-female ratio, and I see no good reason that Sylveon shouldn't have the same ratio as Eevee and all of the other Eeveelutions.
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#74divinity_7Posted 4/12/2013 1:00:28 AM
Twilight_Sonata posted...
Yes, I am aware of its use in fantasy RPGs. The word itself, however, is much older and typically has the meaning quoted above. Contemporary fantasy literature just adopted it, and gave it a connotation to mystical creatures. This does not in any way discard the original meaning. Hence, i think sylvan/silvan is not where its name is from.

WTF? That's like saying that you don't think that "Nymph" fits in with "Fairy" and "Sylph" because Nymph can also mean an insect, which has nothing to do with faeries and sylphs. No, you don't get to do that, arbitrarily discard definitions and usages that are inconvenient to you.

i meant it the other way around: its connotation to mythology is a submeaning. If you look it up in the the OED or any other respectable dictionary, it will mention nothing about mythic creatures. That you are most familiar with that aspect of the word does not mean that that is the official semantic reading of sylvan.

Furthermore, if you did pronounce it ten times in a row, you would have noticed that your /f/ became a lenis consonant (/v/) in the process. This happens because of syllabic assimilation. This is not the place to discuss phonetics however.

Didn't have any trouble with it. Don't know what else to tell you. Either way, it wouldn't matter. That an F sounds sort of like a V sometimes isn't nearly enough to justify needing to change the actually letters. It's still unnecessary either way.

Oh but it does justify it. Consider the plural forms of knife, dwarf, elf and so on. Same principle. And it doesn't sound sort of like a v, it is a /v/. It does not matter anyway, until Gamefreak gives us confirmation.

divinity_7 posted...
Sorry for the double post, but going from your point of view:
Sylvan and nymph suggest a female normal type maybe?

If I had to take a guess, it would be Normal, but I see no good reason to specify female. Eevee has a seven-to-one male-to-female ratio, and I see no good reason that Sylveon shouldn't have the same ratio as Eevee and all of the other Eeveelutions.


Would you not count a female only evolution (like froslass) a possibility? Given its name and appearance?
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#75divinity_7Posted 4/12/2013 1:02:25 AM
Also, I thank you, good sir, for having a intellectual discussion in a place where I thought those were frowned upon ;-)
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#76Twilight_SonataPosted 4/12/2013 1:32:31 AM
divinity_7 posted...
If you look it up in the the OED or any other respectable dictionary, it will mention nothing about mythic creatures. That you are most familiar with that aspect of the word does not mean that that is the official semantic reading of sylvan.

None of that matters, though. Taken in context with the name origins of Nymphs and Faeries, it still fits extremely well exactly because of that usage, regardless of how "primary" or "official" that usage may be considered, if you even subscribe to that sort of prescriptive language (which I don't and which we have no particular reason to believe Gamefreak does). Again, you don't get to discount a legitimate and widely used usage of a word by arguing probably irrelevant semantics just because it would be inconvenient to your "Sylph" argument.

That "Sylvan" is widely used to suggest mythological connotation is a fact, one that I'm sure the developers of such a successful fantasy RPG that draws so much design inspiration from mythology are aware of. In other words, if you accept that connoting mythological figures is a legitimate use of "Sylvan", or even if you ust accept that many other people accept that connoting mythological figures is a legitimate use of "Sylvan", then should you not also accept that it's perfectly possible that's the way whoever at Gamefreak gave it its name feels?

Consider the plural forms of knife, dwarf, elf and so on. Same principle.

I don't pretend to know much about phonetics, but it seems to me that has more to do with the fact that the F in these cases of pluralization are all immediately followed by the S sound, the FS sound specifically being where the disjunction lies, a sound not present in the theoretical Sylpheon, where the FE sound has no such comparably dramatic disjunction.

Would you not count a female only evolution (like froslass) a possibility? Given its name and appearance?

I don't discount it as a possibility entirely, because I think that it'd be foolish at this point to discount almost anything as a possibility given what little information we have. However, I don't see it as particularly likely. There are plenty of Pokemon that can be of both genders despite having a feminine appearance, design origin, or name origin (Gardevoir, Lopunny, Gothitelle, and Meloetta come to mind). Additionally, given that Eevee itself and some of its evolutions, like Glaceon, have been considered by many fans to have feminine designs while all clearly still having a seven-to-one male-to-female ratio, it seems especially unpersuasive to suggest Sylveon will be female-only just because of the apparent femininity of its design.

divinity_7 posted...
Also, I thank you, good sir, for having a intellectual discussion in a place where I thought those were frowned upon ;-)

Always great to have intellectual discussion with somebody who will actually listen. =)
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#77SoulBlayZPosted 4/12/2013 1:42:07 AM
Brandon00151 posted...
I don't get how anyone could NOT think its Flying. Its the lightest Eevee to date. It has ribbons that are flowing in the wind.


cincinno's scarf flows too FLYING TYPE I SAY

srsly just because things move in the wind doesnt mean glying. i just hate the ribbon arguement...its just bad
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#78FDSupremaPosted 4/12/2013 1:45:04 AM
Personally, I'd really like a Flying type Eeveelution, and it looks enough like a Flying type to be one, to me.

But really, I'm just a flying type fanboy. Loves me them Flying types. Also I know a guy who's so adamantly opposed to a flying type and seeing him rage about it would be hilarious. If it's something else I'd be disappointed but I'd just say "Cool, I guess" and move on.
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#79RingsOfUranusPosted 4/12/2013 2:19:02 AM(edited)
digiblaster posted...
I can't understand anybody that says otherwise. Eeveelutions have always been named with respect to their typing. For example, Espeon has ESP in front of it, Flareon (flare), Vaporeon (Vapour, as in water vapour), and so on. The first thing that popped into my head when I saw the name was Sylph, a mythological creature of air, and therefore flying type.

If it's anything else, they've strayed from their usual naming convention.



Classic example of people creating evidence to support their hopes.

Sylve, which is actually the beginning of Sylveon's name, literally translates into 'Forest.'
So clearly Sylveon is actually a new grass evolution. *Sarcasm*

It can be argued (Much more rationally and reasonably, I might add) that all the other Eeveelutions have had very OBVIOUS names. Like you said, Vapor, (Which is how you spell that word, by the way), Flare, Jolt. But getting Sylph from Sylv(e)? Wouldn't it be called Sylpheon? Why would it NOT be called that? And why would they make such a stretch? Wouldn't "Aireon" or "Windeon" be a closer grasp considering how obvious all the other names are? No Eeveelution is named after any particular creature of myth, especially completely obscure ones like Sylph. So all that said, the name Sylveon really doesn't point to being flying at all, right? In fact the very fact that its name HAS nothing to do with flying kind of implies that it is not a flying type. Your own argument sort of explains why it's not probably that it is a flying type.

Furthermore- All the Eeveelutions very clearly display what type they are. Who DIDN'T KNOW what Jolteon was just looking at it? Can you sit there and tell me that thing looks like it flies? It doesn't. A flying type Eeveelution would probably have wings, or jet boosters, or a propeller or something ridiculous to display that it is a flying type.

Let's explore even further if you're still grasping this idea.
All of the Eeveelutions are the same color as the type indicator. Jolteon is Yellow, Vaporeon Blue, Espeon Purple, Umbreon Black, etc, etc. Sylveon is not grey. Once again, if we're talking about patterns, Sylveon being Flying does not make sense. The most logical reasoning, is actually that Sylveon is a new type based on this information alone.

Not saying it definitely ISN'T flying type, but there is absolutely no reason to believe that it is. All arguments in favor of it are grasping at straws, at best.
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#80divinity_7Posted 4/12/2013 2:25:21 AM
I don't pretend to know much about phonetics, but it seems to me that has more to do with the fact that the F in these cases of pluralization are all immediately followed by the S sound, the FS sound specifically being where the disjunction lies, a sound not present in the theoretical Sylpheon, where the FE sound has no such comparably dramatic disjunction.


It actually has to do with the final consonant of the preceding syllable (when stressed). /f/ turns into /v/ mostly after /l/. Hence, the plural of "chef" is "chefs" and "roof" is "roofs", but for "half" it is "halves". That is why I think Sylph is the most viable option for Sylveon's "etomology". But you do make a good point, it could be either sylvan or sylph I think. Note that the relation to air/wind is lost when it is sylvan, so I guess we'll know which one it is once we know the type.

I don't discount it as a possibility entirely, because I think that it'd be foolish at this point to discount almost anything as a possibility given what little information we have. However, I don't see it as particularly likely. There are plenty of Pokemon that can be of both genders despite having a feminine appearance, design origin, or name origin (Gardevoir, Lopunny, Gothitelle, and Meloetta come to mind). Additionally, given that Eevee itself and some of its evolutions, like Glaceon, have been considered by many fans to have feminine designs while all clearly still having a seven-to-one male-to-female ratio, it seems especially unpersuasive to suggest Sylveon will be female-only just because of the apparent femininity of its design.


Hmm, but then there are also a lot of female-only pokemon (I counted 20, as opposed to 4 gender-confused ones :P). And I wasn't just taking its design into account, I was taking its names into account as well, which all point to something feminine, which is something to consider.

Then again, most masculine-named pokemon (anything with -king for example) can be both genders, so who knows.
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