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Stealth Rock is a work of art.

#21LightningHawk90Posted 4/18/2013 3:22:04 AM
I hope SR is extremely hard to access in X and Y.
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#22pokemonfreak97Posted 4/18/2013 4:32:00 AM
BlazingRain posted...
Donniedonz posted...
Charizard isn't a good Pokemon in general, the quad weakness to Stealth Rock just compiles the awfulness of it.

Look at Volcarona. Sure, it's x4 weak to Stealth Rock, but it's a heavily used Pokemon in the metagame because it's a GREAT Pokemon.


Yeah because quiver dance is so important and great that one Pokemon is borderline Uber with it and another is NU without it.

Wait, that's just because Smogon's tiers are stupid.


No, it's because Charizard has a lower BST, stats that are split closer to evenly, and a movepool built for a starter, who is designed to beat just about anything when it has the higher level.

Volcarona, on the other hand, has a higher BST, stats pumped almost exclusively into Sp. Atk. and Speed, and a movepool including Quiver Dance (at least second best boosting move in the game), Bug Buzz (the best Special Bug-type move), Fire Blast (for pure power as a special Fire-type move), Fiery Dance (which deals damage and often raises its Sp. Atk. even higher), and can run a Hurricane set designed to work outside of the rain with the standard Bug Buzz/Fire Blast and then use Hurricane to counter rain teams. It's just that much better.
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#23iKhanicPosted 4/18/2013 4:57:01 AM
pokemonfreak97 posted...
BlazingRain posted...
Yeah because quiver dance is so important and great that one Pokemon is borderline Uber with it and another is NU without it.

Wait, that's just because Smogon's tiers are stupid.


No, it's because Charizard has a lower BST, stats that are split closer to evenly, and a movepool built for a starter, who is designed to beat just about anything when it has the higher level.

Volcarona, on the other hand, has a higher BST, stats pumped almost exclusively into Sp. Atk. and Speed, and a movepool including Quiver Dance (at least second best boosting move in the game), Bug Buzz (the best Special Bug-type move), Fire Blast (for pure power as a special Fire-type move), Fiery Dance (which deals damage and often raises its Sp. Atk. even higher), and can run a Hurricane set designed to work outside of the rain with the standard Bug Buzz/Fire Blast and then use Hurricane to counter rain teams. It's just that much better.


Bug Buzz and Fiery Dance aren't that big a deal. Yes, Volcarona has access to more special attacks than Charizard, But it doesn't really matter, because both have the right special moves to be effective (I'm only referring to attacks here, Charizard has an unfortunate lack of Sp. Atk or Spd boosting moves). Charizard pretty much has access to every good special move it needs to be effective with the exception of Hurricane (so it's not completely crippled by rain)

But I agree, Volcarona has the ideal stat distribution for it's movepool, and if it weren't for SR, it would probably be a top contender in Uber.

LightningAce11 posted...
Twilight_Sonata posted...
iKhanic posted...
BL (which is essentially OU)

That's... not what BL is at all.


Yeah, iKhanic! That means it wasn't good enough to make the cut, but wasn't so bad that it had to be dropped down.


But BL pokemon can only compete in OU anyway, heirgo, its essentially OU.
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#24DarkBuster22904Posted 4/18/2013 5:23:09 AM
Eh, hardly art. Breaks quite a few otherwise awesome pokemon, though. seems to more just make pokemon unusable, than anything else. And any move that single handedly homogenizes the metagame is hardly "art"
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#25BlazingRainPosted 4/18/2013 4:44:56 PM
pokemonfreak97 posted...
No, it's because Charizard has a lower BST,


Because 534 BST Pokemon suck right? Oh wait, they don't, and being 16 BST higher isn't a big deal, especially considering that Charizard's BST is 588 in the sun (which is where it should be).

stats that are split closer to evenly,


Not a bad thing. The best Pokemon in the game has completely even stats, as do many others. This may mean that Charizard's stats aren't as specialized as Volcarona's, but that doesn't matter as long as both are effective in their role, which they are. If anything this benefits Charizard, as it allows for some limited variation.

and a movepool built for a starter, who is designed to beat just about anything when it has the higher level.


It has a good moveset, but let's move on.

Volcarona, on the other hand, has a higher BST,


Not in the sun.
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#26BlazingRainPosted 4/18/2013 4:45:20 PM
stats pumped almost exclusively into Sp. Atk. and Speed,


LOL it has exactly the same speed as Charizard. See this is how you know people hate Charizard or think it's useless only because they blindly follow the trend without looking into it themselves.

That's usually fine, but if you're going to argue something you should know what you're talking about.

Aside from that, Charizard's Special Attack is a usable 109, and a beastly 163 in the sun.

But you've already proven at this point that you've never actually considered this issue beyond what Smogon says.

and a movepool including Quiver Dance (at least second best boosting move in the game),


Great move, but not enough to make Charizard NU and Volcarona borderline Uber.

Bug Buzz (the best Special Bug-type move),


Bug type isn't great offensively, but it is a good move.

Fire Blast (for pure power as a special Fire-type move),


Charizard has it.

Fiery Dance (which deals damage and often raises its Sp. Atk. even higher),


It's a great move.
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#27BlazingRainPosted 4/18/2013 4:46:02 PM
and can run a Hurricane set designed to work outside of the rain with the standard Bug Buzz/Fire Blast and then use Hurricane to counter rain teams.


Air Slash is better, since it's usable outside of the rain and is just slightly weaker.


It's just that much better.


Nope. Fiery Dance and Quiver Dance aren't enough for a Pokemon without them to be NU and one with them to be borderline Uber.

Volcarona's amazing speed definitely makes it better though, right?
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#28Roc_RaidaPosted 4/18/2013 4:51:13 PM
From: SteaIth_Rock | #010
I am pretty great, right?

http://i.imgur.com/nhqoe0C.gif

wtf
#29RoobitysuPosted 4/18/2013 4:51:55 PM
From: Meta289 | Posted: 4/17/2013 10:37:43 PM | #002
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/268/2/2/sexymon___stealth_rock_by_wupar-d2zgtm0.png


Came to post this
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#30ClassyOldHatPosted 4/18/2013 6:54:50 PM
BlazingRain posted...
Volcarona's amazing speed definitely makes it better though, right?


Even as a Volcarona fan, I gotta say, Good work man! That is a burn!