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Stealth Rock is a work of art.

#31iKhanicPosted 4/18/2013 6:57:01 PM
ClassyOldHat posted...
BlazingRain posted...
Volcarona's amazing speed definitely makes it better though, right?


Even as a Volcarona fan, I gotta say, Good work man! That is a burn!


i c wut u did thar
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Not changing this sig until we get a new main series Tales game released on a Nintendo console in the US
#32Genericgamer667Posted 4/18/2013 6:58:19 PM
oh geez are people still not accepting Volcarona is better?
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3DS FC: 4940-5445-8767
It is a remake, not my fault you people think ports are remakes (but only on Nintendo systems)-Demondog666 on Kid Icarus Uprising
#33Thepenguinking2Posted 4/18/2013 7:00:53 PM
Aggron laughs at your puny floating rocks.
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WHY CAN'T SHEDINJA LEARN ENTRAINMENTMe in the X board
The Shiny zangoose of the X/y Board! (what? everyone's doing this!)
#34LightningAce11Posted 4/18/2013 7:04:19 PM
Volcarona is better. Some people, like iKhanic don't want to admit it just because the nostalgia glasses have been glued to their faces and that their hero charizard is not amazing, but just good.
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"Nostalgia makes the heart feeble. It is the heart's nemesis." - Trema
#35iKhanicPosted 4/18/2013 7:05:55 PM
LightningAce11 posted...
Volcarona is better. Some people, like iKhanic don't want to admit it just because the nostalgia glasses have been glued to their faces and that their hero charizard is not amazing, but just good.


iKhanic posted...
Donniedonz posted...
Charizard isn't a good Pokemon in general, the quad weakness to Stealth Rock just compiles the awfulness of it.

Look at Volcarona. Sure, it's x4 weak to Stealth Rock, but it's a heavily used Pokemon in the metagame because it's a GREAT Pokemon.


Volcarona has pretty much an ideal movepool and stat distribution for a pokemon. It can boost 3 of its base stats that are already >=100 base in one move. The ONLY other Uber or OU pokemon 4x weak to SR is Ho-Oh, and it has amazing stats and movepool as well. So SR pretty much weeded out any pokemon that wasn't perfect before (competitively, Volcarona's still horrendously ugly in design)


Nostalgia glasses glue to my head you say?
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Not changing this sig until we get a new main series Tales game released on a Nintendo console in the US
#36LightningAce11Posted 4/18/2013 7:06:52 PM
iKhanic posted...
LightningAce11 posted...
Volcarona is better. Some people, like iKhanic don't want to admit it just because the nostalgia glasses have been glued to their faces and that their hero charizard is not amazing, but just good.


iKhanic posted...
Donniedonz posted...
Charizard isn't a good Pokemon in general, the quad weakness to Stealth Rock just compiles the awfulness of it.

Look at Volcarona. Sure, it's x4 weak to Stealth Rock, but it's a heavily used Pokemon in the metagame because it's a GREAT Pokemon.


Volcarona has pretty much an ideal movepool and stat distribution for a pokemon. It can boost 3 of its base stats that are already >=100 base in one move. The ONLY other Uber or OU pokemon 4x weak to SR is Ho-Oh, and it has amazing stats and movepool as well. So SR pretty much weeded out any pokemon that wasn't perfect before (competitively, Volcarona's still horrendously ugly in design)


Nostalgia glasses glue to my head you say?


Yup. Stop fanboying.
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"Nostalgia makes the heart feeble. It is the heart's nemesis." - Trema
#37iKhanicPosted 4/18/2013 7:11:25 PM
LightningAce11 posted...
iKhanic posted...
LightningAce11 posted...
Volcarona is better. Some people, like iKhanic don't want to admit it just because the nostalgia glasses have been glued to their faces and that their hero charizard is not amazing, but just good.


iKhanic posted...
Donniedonz posted...
Charizard isn't a good Pokemon in general, the quad weakness to Stealth Rock just compiles the awfulness of it.

Look at Volcarona. Sure, it's x4 weak to Stealth Rock, but it's a heavily used Pokemon in the metagame because it's a GREAT Pokemon.


Volcarona has pretty much an ideal movepool and stat distribution for a pokemon. It can boost 3 of its base stats that are already >=100 base in one move. The ONLY other Uber or OU pokemon 4x weak to SR is Ho-Oh, and it has amazing stats and movepool as well. So SR pretty much weeded out any pokemon that wasn't perfect before (competitively, Volcarona's still horrendously ugly in design)


Nostalgia glasses glue to my head you say?


Yup. Stop fanboying.


But I admit Volcarona is better as it stands. That really can't be argued at all. Charizard is crippled by the secondary effect of his (87.5% male) ability.

It just really pisses me off when people actually assert that Charizard is a bad pokemon, which is not the case, its only a good pokemon.
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Not changing this sig until we get a new main series Tales game released on a Nintendo console in the US
#38Genericgamer667Posted 4/18/2013 7:16:33 PM
LightningAce11 posted...
Volcarona is better. Some people, like iKhanic don't want to admit it just because the nostalgia glasses have been glued to their faces and that their hero charizard is not amazing, but just good.


getting him mixed up?
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3DS FC: 4940-5445-8767
It is a remake, not my fault you people think ports are remakes (but only on Nintendo systems)-Demondog666 on Kid Icarus Uprising
#39LightningAce11Posted 4/18/2013 7:19:04 PM
Genericgamer667 posted...
LightningAce11 posted...
Volcarona is better. Some people, like iKhanic don't want to admit it just because the nostalgia glasses have been glued to their faces and that their hero charizard is not amazing, but just good.


getting him mixed up?


And you.
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"Nostalgia makes the heart feeble. It is the heart's nemesis." - Trema
#40ClassyOldHatPosted 4/18/2013 10:16:32 PM
But anyway, yeah, on the Topic of Stealth Rock, anyone who says the tiers wouldn't be any different if Stealth Rock didn't punish people purely for using the 35 percent of all Pokemon weak to Rock, citing Volcarona (and only ever Volcarona, you'll notice, outside of Ubers) as an example, is simply kidding themselves.

Of course Volcarona is still successful even after Stealth Rock; it has a high BST, a stat distribution with a clear focus on being the best at it's job, an attack pool that takes clear advantage of those stats (including a signature move that will randomly raise it's attack stat even more), and a boosting move that will raise all of it's best stats even further in a single turn. With that kind of favor from Game Freak, it could take Super Effective damage from every move in the game and it probably wouldn't loose that much use.

Meanwhile just about anything else even 2x weak to Stealth Rock is cast to NU unless it can become a Volcarona of UU or RU. As another poster said, Stealth Rock basically weeds out any Rock-weak Pokemon that are not utterly perfect in movepool and stat focus. Maybe they wouldn't have stayed in OU anyway, but they may have found niches and formed strategies that we will never know of now.

And before any members of the Glorious Double Battling Master Race show up to tell me that I'm whining about things I shouldn't, because GF balanced the game for Doubles, and playing singles is a sin, I say that if you're going to include multiple game modes, you better be prepared to balance ALL of them, not just the new ones that you kind of like more than the others.

Frankly, if the only way you can convince those who don't already like Doubles to play is by making the alternatives unbalanced and unfun to play, that may say something about your cherished battle mode that isn't exactly great.