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How would you feel if the metagame was balanced for Gen 6

#31CakeOfLiesPosted 4/24/2013 12:57:26 PM
FuzzyJello posted...
CakeOfLies posted...
Just does it mean that Smogon doesn't have a strategy for something, doesn't mean that you can't make one. The tier list is there to make the game fair, not to tell you that your favorite sucks for being RU.


The miscommunication is that tiers are not the problem. Smogon tiers don't demand you choose anything. The problem is dedicated competitive players probably will, which means someone who wants to break the mold will have a hard time getting help on an unconventional team- which is where the real issue comes from. For instance, say I wanted to put a Fearow on my OU team. What do you think would be in every response on a rate my team board would be? Presuming they didn't write of the entire team as a joke or gimmick then and there? Drop Fearow. Doesn't matter that you know you're consciously aware you are handicapping yourself, drop the bird.


People say that because Smogon doesn't have an OU strategy for Fearow.
If you can make it work, go for it. Not once has anyone said you're not allowed to do that.
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#32Rogue MuttPosted 4/24/2013 1:23:41 PM
What if weaker pokemon, like say Pigeot, got their stats bumped up to make them more viable? They would still probably be outclassed by other pokemon, but using them wouldn't be as much of a chore/suicide.

There will never be complete balance among all of the pokemon, but what would be wrong with that?
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#33Rook_the_RangerPosted 4/24/2013 1:27:18 PM
It wouldn't necessarily balance the game. Pokemon with poor types such as Articuno and poor move pools such as Flareon would be sorely underused. Meanwhile, Smeargle and Breloom would be God.
#34GiftedACIIIPosted 4/24/2013 1:45:25 PM(edited)
FuzzyJello posted...
CakeOfLies posted...
Just does it mean that Smogon doesn't have a strategy for something, doesn't mean that you can't make one. The tier list is there to make the game fair, not to tell you that your favorite sucks for being RU.


The miscommunication is that tiers are not the problem. Smogon tiers don't demand you choose anything. The problem is dedicated competitive players probably will, which means someone who wants to break the mold will have a hard time getting help on an unconventional team- which is where the real issue comes from. For instance, say I wanted to put a Fearow on my OU team. What do you think would be in every response on a rate my team board would be? Presuming they didn't write of the entire team as a joke or gimmick then and there? Drop Fearow. Doesn't matter that you know you're consciously aware you are handicapping yourself, drop the bird.


Then no offense but you kind of are purposely giving yourself a disadvantage. But you know, you can still get help on a team with fearow. How? By making sure you say that you are using Fearow because it is one of your favorites, that you're keeping it and that you want to center a team around it (or just use it instead of something, I guess better, like Staraptor) Believe it or not, Smogon actually are willing to keep out of replacing an outclassed mon if you inform that it's one of your favorites and you insist on keeping it. However, remember you won't be winning as much and that it'll be very hard to help teams if you refuse to change any of them. You've got to give and take for Smogon RMTs.

And remember that you don't have to listen to their advice if you don't want to. I've kept Pokemon that people have said need to be replaced just because I find a Pokemon is too much of an underdog like Bisharp or Meloetta and Victreebel over Venusaur.
#35ClassyOldHatPosted 4/24/2013 2:03:23 PM
CakeOfLies posted...
This is proof that people don't get it.
Have you any idea how hard it would be to balance the metagame like that? Everything would literally have to have the same exact type, stats, movepool, and ability for that to work.


Yes, I know balancing metagames is hard: There are unbalanced metagames for games with only two characters! So how much harder would balancing the 500-something fully-evolved Pokemon against each other be.

BUT in many games, despite the unbalance, one still gets the feeling the devs were at least TRYING to balance the characters. Gamefreak, meanwhile, seems to have such a poor grasp of what makes a Pokemon useful, that even when TRYING to make an overpowered character (Black Kyurem) people shrug and say "Garchomp was worse." So many pokemon, even without altering their stats, could be much better, or at least have good niches, if they had more useful moves or abilities.

I don't even ask that no pokemon be outclassed by others. Just for an ATTEMPT at making fully evolved Pokemon balanced.
#36GiftedACIIIPosted 4/24/2013 2:16:14 PM(edited)
ClassyOldHat posted...
CakeOfLies posted...
This is proof that people don't get it.
Have you any idea how hard it would be to balance the metagame like that? Everything would literally have to have the same exact type, stats, movepool, and ability for that to work.


Yes, I know balancing metagames is hard: There are unbalanced metagames for games with only two characters! So how much harder would balancing the 500-something fully-evolved Pokemon against each other be.

BUT in many games, despite the unbalance, one still gets the feeling the devs were at least TRYING to balance the characters. Gamefreak, meanwhile, seems to have such a poor grasp of what makes a Pokemon useful, that even when TRYING to make an overpowered character (Black Kyurem) people shrug and say "Garchomp was worse." So many pokemon, even without altering their stats, could be much better, or at least have good niches, if they had more useful moves or abilities.

I don't even ask that no pokemon be outclassed by others. Just for an ATTEMPT at making fully evolved Pokemon balanced.

That would indeed be awesome. It'd be great if Gamefreak did more things with the competitive community for Singles (remember, their official competitions use doubles) but after all,Pokemon is mainly a children's game, and that is who their main target audience is. Balancing the metagame isn't a priority for them unfortunately.
#37PkmTrainerAbramPosted 4/24/2013 2:36:29 PM
I'd much rather they just make more items that are Pokemon specific that boost the stats, power of moves, add on a second ability in addition to the current ability the Pokemon has, or something like what things like Evolite, Lucky Punch and Thick Club already do for the Pokemon that they are intended for.

Why no one has mentioned this yet astounds me. This is going to happen way before a complete stat revamp happens.

For instance there could be an item for say Beedrill and it's family line called "Edged Needles", that when held, ups the critical hit rate by 50 percent in addition to the effects from moves and stat boosts to it in play.

Another example would be "Family Crown" for the Nidoran/Rina/Rino Pokemon, that provide the Ability of Diefiant, in addtion to it's other natural ability being active at the same time.
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#38FuzzyJelloPosted 4/24/2013 2:45:43 PM
GiftedACIII posted...
Then no offense but you kind of are purposely giving yourself a disadvantage.


Oh, I know. Staraptor, Swellow, and Dodrio are all better, and the entire Normal/Flying line is questionable to begin with. Just using a favorite of mine as an example.

GiftedACIII posted...
Believe it or not, Smogon actually are willing to keep out of replacing an outclassed mon if you inform that it's one of your favorites and you insist on keeping it. However, remember you won't be winning as much and that it'll be very hard to help teams if you refuse to change any of them. You've got to give and take for Smogon RMTs.


Glad to hear! Yes, I know RMT are meant to be red ink sessions, I've read a few, I just wasn't sure if there was a bit of leeway on that.
#39DarkDragon386Posted 4/24/2013 3:00:19 PM
Also, why should stuff found at the beginning of the game be just as strong or stronger than something that you get near the end of the game. Sure, there are a few strong examples like Gyarados and Staraptor whose basic forms can be found relatively early, but that's like an RPG giving you the strongest weapon in the game at the very beginning.
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#40powerprotomanPosted 4/24/2013 3:10:41 PM
guys guys the only reason this wont happen is because of dunsparce look at that things move pool and realize that if it had good stats everyone would use it