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2 years ago#31
I do not understand how people can say ice is the worst type, supereffective on 4 different types (only ground matches that) the only type se on dragon, (the uberest type in the game) and has the best status in the game. Easily the best.
As has been stated, the problem with Ice is the fact that it's awful defensively. Ice being good offensively barely helps Ice types themselves since Ice offense is so widespread, particularly among Water types. Also, Freeze is pretty arguably NOT the best status in the game, seeing as there's no way to inflict it automatically and IIRC due to the fact that you have a fixed chance of thawing out every turn on average it doesn't last as long as Sleep.
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2 years ago#32
Normal literally does nothing good.
At least Ice gives you stab ice moves which are awesome.
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2 years ago#33
None. They are all useful for something.
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2 years ago#34
Better to have one wasted move than four common weaknesses.
Perhaps. But why don't try taking all the Ice moves away from the game, you know what happens? Dragon type becomes WAAAY overpowered. Meanwhile poison is entirely irrelevent. Want proof? The only direct poison attacks in uber and ou are on Venusaur and Arceus-Poison, for all the other poison types in ou they may as well not have poison type at all. The only reason poison type isn't a flat out detriment on every mon that has it is because of Black Sludge, any duel poison type not carrying it is now weak to ground and psychic, two common attacking types, in exchange for poison-status immunity (meh.)
I'm that piece in the middle that does stupid stuff like randomly giving Ganon a piece when he needs a way to not die.
2 years ago#35
Poison. Even Steel (which is a bad attacking type) is SE against 2 types, Poison is SE against one. And Steel is a far better defensive type than poison.
2 years ago#36
Having the Ice type is basically a weakness in itself because good STAB usually fails to counteract the worst defensive typing in the game.
2 years ago#37
I said ice is the worst type because poison is still useful to have on a Pokemon while still having merits on attacks. Ice only has merits as an attacking type. Poison is one of the best defensive types, is immune to the extremely common Toxic, and can automatically get rid of Toxic Spikes upon switch in. And there are still some Pokemon that can take advantage of moves such as Sludge Bomb, which has good power and a whopping 30% chance for poison. And if we are including Toxic (which I'm assuming we are because the topic title says overall), that's a point that leans strongly in poison's favor. Nearly every team has Toxic on it. Ice is pretty much only good as an attacking type. Nothing else. It's hard to say that a type isn't the worst when a Pokemon is almost always automatically worse just by being it, despite the STAB boost.
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2 years ago#38
Normal. Definitely Normal. It's not even a contest. All of these other types at least have their redeeming qualities:
- Grass Pokemon are great for facing powerful Ground and Water types because they resist their STAB moves and have their own Super Effective STABs. Plus, you get moves like Leech Seed for that great sub-seeding and Spore for reasons I shouldn't need to mention. Yeah, they have a lot of weaknesses, but nobody really uses Poison attacks anyway, and it's not exactly hard to stick a Grass type on a rain team.
- Rock is lacking defensively, but it's a great offensive type. Only Fighting and Ground land more Super Effective hits, but nothing is immune to Rock. Plus, hello, Stealth Rocks!
- Ice is similarly lacking defensively but fantastic offensively. Again, only Fighting and Ground land more Super Effective hits, but nothing is immune to Ice. Plus, one of those Super Effective hits is against Dragon! Many of which even have a 4x weakness!
- Bug? Key resistances to Fighting and Ground, as well as great moves like U-Turn, Quiver Dance, and the rare Tail Glow.
- Poison may not look like much at first, but it's not at all a bad defensive type with its Fighting resistance and Toxic Immunity. Heck Toxic and Toxic Spikes themselves are great moves.
- I'm not even sure why Fire is here, because although it is weak defensively, it's great offensively. Again, only Fighting and Ground are super effective against more, and the trait that Fire shares with them is being one of the only three types super effective versus Steel.
Normal, though? What redeeming qualities do we even have here? A few good status moves, admittedly (Disable, Encore, Extreme Speed, Rapid Spin, Recover, Rest, Shell Smash, Substitute), some of which are more niche than others, and a Ghost immunity, which comes up essentially never and is definitely not worth that weakness to Fighting.
"Oh, but Twilight," I can already hear you saying, "Normal has good Neutral coverage!" No. It does not. That is a myth. It has exactly mediocre Neutral coverage. Of the 15 types, 7 have better neutral coverage than Normal and 7 have worse. That is not something to brag about, especially when you can't hit anything super effectively.
"Oh, but Twilight!," you continue ignorantly, "What about Blissey? It's so successful because of its Normal typing!" No. That is a myth. It is successful because it has a ****ing absurd HP stat and gratuitous Special Defense on top of that. People point to Normal taking neutral damage as a bonus, but when have you ever turned to any other type and said something stupid like "Yeah, one of Fire's redeeming qualities is that it takes neutral damage from Dragon!" Never. You never say that because it's stupid. Taking neutral damage is not something to be proud of, especially not when you also don't have any meaningful resistances.
Normal is the worst type for being so cripplingly mediocre.
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2 years ago#39
Sad to see my favourite type is the worst :( but unfortunetly it's true
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2 years ago#40
The only good thing about it is STAB Extremespeed, other than that it's overall the worst offensive AND defensive type. Its only immunity (ghost) isn't that useful and ghost attacks are ALWAYS paired with fighting anyway.
Other than E.killer Arceus, every single normal type would benefit more if they had another type.
Blissey is the only OU normal type and that's only because of her insane HP and special defense stats, certainly not thanks to her type.
Fire is a close second in any metagame where Drizzle is allowed. Reshiram and Ho-oh are uber thanks to their insane stats, while Heatran, Ninetales and Volcarona are OU thanks to their secondary type, ability and stats/movepool, respectively. Infernape doesn't deserve to be OU in this generation.
Ice is one of the best STABs in the game and it makes a huge difference on moves like Blizzard or Ice Shard.
Seriously, Donphan's lack of Ice STAB means that he doesn't even come close to OHKO 4x weak ice pokemon like Landorus with Ice Shard despite a 120 attack stat and Life Orb, while Mamoswine and Weavile have no trouble doing that.
And let's not even get started on how the Kyurem formes absolutely wreck everything with their amazing Ice STAB.
Poison might be the worst offensive type, but the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes alone can save entire teams. Plus it's pretty decent defensively.
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