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So why does everyone hate smogon?

#291RingsOfUranusPosted 5/11/2013 12:42:07 AM
I don't mind Smogon itself. The tiers don't bother me but some of the ridiculous rules do,. Like the Moody ban. A ban on a an ability that is only used by god awful Pokemon like Bidoof. No lie, straight from Smogon regarding Moody: "Bidoof nearly had to be banned because of this ability. Bidoof. All the Pokemon that obtain this ability have a way of abusing it to get ridiculous levels of stat boosts and eventually become able to steamroll their way through an entire team."

BIDOOF is going to steam roll my team? Maybe in NU or RU, but no Pokemon that even has this ability is regarded as OU or even UU for that matter by Smogon's own standards, so why ban it in OU? Would Bidoof be Uber with moody? I really, really doubt this. I'll flinch hax the **** out of people with Jirachi and Togekiss because for whatever reason it's perfectly legal, but I can't use a horrible Pokemon with a shot-in-the-dark ability? And what about Smeargle? Smeargle's sole role is a baton passer, with moody it stands just as good a chance of lowering the very stats you're trying to increase.

Smogon also has some weird sets for certain Pokemon imho. A lot of them are spot on, but black sludge on a substitute/sweeper Gengar? Gengar is a glass cannon, anything in the OU tier can 1HKO or 2HKO Gengar. What are you putting black sludge on it for, if it's not getting baton passed a bulky substitute or massive defense boosts which Smogon doesn't even mention? What about the item clause? WHY exactly? Smogon's definitely not law, and at the end of the day if you want to play VGC, it's irrelevant anyway.
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Pokemon White 2 FC: 1636-3783-8366
Ipsylos: Psyduck easily is the best representation of Christianity on Pokemon period.
#292LexifoxPosted 5/11/2013 12:46:51 AM
RingsOfUranus posted...
I don't mind Smogon itself. The tiers don't bother me but some of the ridiculous rules do,. Like the Moody ban. A ban on a an ability that is only used by god awful Pokemon like Bidoof. No lie, straight from Smogon regarding Moody: "Bidoof nearly had to be banned because of this ability. Bidoof. All the Pokemon that obtain this ability have a way of abusing it to get ridiculous levels of stat boosts and eventually become able to steamroll their way through an entire team."

BIDOOF is going to steam roll my team? Maybe in NU or RU, but no Pokemon that even has this ability is regarded as OU or even UU for that matter by Smogon's own standards, so why ban it in OU? Would Bidoof be Uber with moody? I really, really doubt this. I'll flinch hax the **** out of people with Jirachi and Togekiss because for whatever reason it's perfectly legal, but I can't use a horrible Pokemon with a shot-in-the-dark ability? And what about Smeargle? Smeargle's sole role is a baton passer, with moody it stands just as good a chance of lowering the very stats you're trying to increase.

Smogon also has some weird sets for certain Pokemon imho. A lot of them are spot on, but black sludge on a substitute/sweeper Gengar? Gengar is a glass cannon, anything in the OU tier can 1HKO or 2HKO Gengar. What are you putting black sludge on it for, if it's not getting baton passed a bulky substitute or massive defense boosts which Smogon doesn't even mention? What about the item clause? WHY exactly? Smogon's definitely not law, and at the end of the day if you want to play VGC, it's irrelevant anyway.


Not sure f trolling or not.

Moody Bibarel and Octillery swept entire teams by themselves.

The Gengar set in question specifies that it's for specific threats that only have one real attack capable of harming Gengar and making use of Disable to deal with their main form of offense, while healing up the Sub damage/mitigating Sandstorm.
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"Murder of the living is tragic, but murder of the idea is unforgivable." - Janus, speaker of the synod
#293TBF Bri 10Posted 5/11/2013 1:50:48 AM
A lot of the hate for Smogon comes from the rep of their forums and troll gossip. Smogon does its best to be the best Pokemon site on the Internet, but it focuses the most on its competitive strategies. Serebii is known best for getting information faster than anybody else, and Marriland is known best for his endless video walkthroughs on YouTube. Think of it this way:

Smogon is the nerdy scientist who knows more than anybody but has no social life to speak of whatsoever.
Serebii is the hardworking reporter who gets the latest scoop but has lots of typos all over his newspaper.
Marriland is the muscular surfer who is the big fish in his pond but couldn't survive in the real world.

In our society today, which of these three do we dislike the most?

Smogon fans have hundreds of thousands of battles, charting and graphing (I'm not kidding) the results.
Serebii fans like to battle for fun and use good movesets but don't stress out over it too much.
Marriland fans use whatever they want, because it looks pretty and cool.

In our society today, which of these three do we not want to become?

Whenever something is popular enough, there will always be a group to fulfill a certain niche. Smogon fulfills the competitive strategy niche. When people see that Blaziken is Uber, Kyurem-B is OU, and Regigigas is NU, they instantly react and think that Smogon is out of its mind without understanding why it's like this.

Competitive battling is like Chess, and most people really aren't very good at Chess. Instead of playing another game, the loser flips the Chess board over and blames everyone but himself. If you come to play Chess with Checkers pieces, your loss is almost assured. For people who are good at Chess, playing Chess is fun; even Chess players take a break and player Checkers every once in a while.

Of course, everything above only applies to the true haters of Smogon, which, in reality, is probably less than 10% of all the people who complain about him. The majority of "Smogon haters" are just trolls who have nothing better to do than sit on the Internet for hours at a time and argue endlessly until they get bored.
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Survivor of 60-Day Purgatory
"Do you know that it's only beginning?" - Ron Paul
#294RingsOfUranusPosted 5/11/2013 2:07:16 AM
Lexifox posted...
RingsOfUranus posted...
I don't mind Smogon itself. The tiers don't bother me but some of the ridiculous rules do,. Like the Moody ban. A ban on a an ability that is only used by god awful Pokemon like Bidoof. No lie, straight from Smogon regarding Moody: "Bidoof nearly had to be banned because of this ability. Bidoof. All the Pokemon that obtain this ability have a way of abusing it to get ridiculous levels of stat boosts and eventually become able to steamroll their way through an entire team."

BIDOOF is going to steam roll my team? Maybe in NU or RU, but no Pokemon that even has this ability is regarded as OU or even UU for that matter by Smogon's own standards, so why ban it in OU? Would Bidoof be Uber with moody? I really, really doubt this. I'll flinch hax the **** out of people with Jirachi and Togekiss because for whatever reason it's perfectly legal, but I can't use a horrible Pokemon with a shot-in-the-dark ability? And what about Smeargle? Smeargle's sole role is a baton passer, with moody it stands just as good a chance of lowering the very stats you're trying to increase.

Smogon also has some weird sets for certain Pokemon imho. A lot of them are spot on, but black sludge on a substitute/sweeper Gengar? Gengar is a glass cannon, anything in the OU tier can 1HKO or 2HKO Gengar. What are you putting black sludge on it for, if it's not getting baton passed a bulky substitute or massive defense boosts which Smogon doesn't even mention? What about the item clause? WHY exactly? Smogon's definitely not law, and at the end of the day if you want to play VGC, it's irrelevant anyway.


Not sure f trolling or not.

Moody Bibarel and Octillery swept entire teams by themselves.

The Gengar set in question specifies that it's for specific threats that only have one real attack capable of harming Gengar and making use of Disable to deal with their main form of offense, while healing up the Sub damage/mitigating Sandstorm.


A lot of Pokemon are capable of sweeping teams. Shell smash Cloyster is virtually unstoppable, in fact shell smash in general makes a Pokemon infinitely more useful than Moody ever did, Shell smash is still legal. Moody was never much of a problem for me, or very enticing, but I'm not a person who cares for chances in that way.

The Gengar set I was more referring to was the 3-Offensive set where Black Sludge is still an option and substitute is offered with reflect. (?) Though even the substitute/disable set is still an awkward way to use Gengar's abilities. Stalling Blissey, or any Pokemon isn't really the best use of a massive special attacker with zero defenses like Gengar imo.
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Pokemon White 2 FC: 1636-3783-8366
Ipsylos: Psyduck easily is the best representation of Christianity on Pokemon period.
#295Grammar_manPosted 5/11/2013 2:40:32 AM
RingsOfUranus posted...
I don't mind Smogon itself. The tiers don't bother me but some of the ridiculous rules do,. Like the Moody ban. A ban on a an ability that is only used by god awful Pokemon like Bidoof. No lie, straight from Smogon regarding Moody: "Bidoof nearly had to be banned because of this ability. Bidoof. All the Pokemon that obtain this ability have a way of abusing it to get ridiculous levels of stat boosts and eventually become able to steamroll their way through an entire team."

BIDOOF is going to steam roll my team? Maybe in NU or RU, but no Pokemon that even has this ability is regarded as OU or even UU for that matter by Smogon's own standards, so why ban it in OU? Would Bidoof be Uber with moody? I really, really doubt this. I'll flinch hax the **** out of people with Jirachi and Togekiss because for whatever reason it's perfectly legal, but I can't use a horrible Pokemon with a shot-in-the-dark ability? And what about Smeargle? Smeargle's sole role is a baton passer, with moody it stands just as good a chance of lowering the very stats you're trying to increase.

Smogon also has some weird sets for certain Pokemon imho. A lot of them are spot on, but black sludge on a substitute/sweeper Gengar? Gengar is a glass cannon, anything in the OU tier can 1HKO or 2HKO Gengar. What are you putting black sludge on it for, if it's not getting baton passed a bulky substitute or massive defense boosts which Smogon doesn't even mention? What about the item clause? WHY exactly? Smogon's definitely not law, and at the end of the day if you want to play VGC, it's irrelevant anyway.


I'm not even a particularly good player, and my Moody Bidoof has steamrolled Uber teams. I'm sitting here with massive evasion, good enough defenses to weather a hit or so from many different mons due to lol +5/+6 defenses, Subs and other stuff.


Moody is hilariously broken.
#296Grammar_manPosted 5/11/2013 4:25:21 AM
RingsOfUranus posted...

A lot of Pokemon are capable of sweeping teams. Shell smash Cloyster is virtually unstoppable, in fact shell smash in general makes a Pokemon infinitely more useful than Moody ever did, Shell smash is still legal. Moody was never much of a problem for me, or very enticing, but I'm not a person who cares for chances in that way.

Sub/Protect keeps you alive. If you have the good luck to pick up evasion on the first turn, gg, match over in many cases.

Shell Smash Cloyster is also lol weak to priority, and unless it gets two Smashes off, is getting revenge killed pretty easily. Oh, and quite a few things can get around/survive Shell Smash. +2 Evasion? Not so much.
#297SerperiorThanUPosted 5/11/2013 4:10:12 PM
Wow, I completely forgot that you weren't allowed to do that, took me almost a week to realize it.