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So why does everyone hate smogon?

#31IngSlayerPosted 4/26/2013 8:18:17 AM
why does everyone hate this why does everyone hate that
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Sedix: Baffling Artist
#32GiftedACIIIPosted 4/26/2013 9:11:42 AM
Tewlsy posted...
RX02Banshee posted...
Probably because they are incredibly arrogant. They do a lot of good work for the competitive scene, but ye gods do they have swollen heads, and I suspect people pick up on it and that is where the highly negative views start being formed.

Something along these lines. I tried playing Showdown UU for a couple of days in a row around 7 months ago and just gave up on it because nearly everyone I went up against loved to talk trash whether they were winning or losing horribly. Just constantly spouting off obscenities or criticizing you for making a less than perfect move. I'm not so thin-skinned that I can't handle being given a little crap here and there in competitive games like shooters and MOBAs, but Pokémon is NOT where I go to hear any of that. I'd have never stopped playing if you were able to disable chat or it was at least in a separate box from all of the actual battle information so I could tune it out easier.

I don't hate Smogon itself though. Organizing things the way they do and cleaning up after the actual devs of the game to make sure the competitive playing field is even enough is very admirable and appreciated. I just wish it wasn't needed in the first place.


I just want you to know that those people aren't necessarily Smogonites. All multiplayer games have terrible sports. Most of the angry sore losers on Showdown are actually anti-smogonites. From what I've seen, smogonites (on their own forums) are mostly calm and collected and try their best to convey their meaning in a polite manner. They have very little tolerance for trolls though which I guess is why some people dislike Smogon. Because they finally found a forum that has little tolerance for actual trolling.
#33keyos27Posted 4/26/2013 5:54:37 PM
Cpt_Calamity posted...
Because everyone hates the devil though.

keyos27 posted...
Because Smogon kills creativity.


But seriously, it is because idiots actually think this to be true since they don't understand Smogon.



First of all, I apologize for condemning or accusing Smogon about killing creativity without my explanations of why Smogon kills creativity. I hope you would have written a word "Idiots" if I had made my statement clear.

I found it quite funny to call someone "Uneducated" for giving negative opinion towards Smogon. Sure, it is a university where thousands of competitive battlers visit to learn and copy move sets to make the best team for the glory of Metagame. And there are those including myself who do not rely on others to create a team and instead apply own knowledge within what they know which does not mean neither do they know about Smogon nor have lack of knowledge or information about Pokemon battle (EV spreads, EV, IV, and rules of Clause)

Pokemon battle is about luck (Critical ratio, chances of causing status effect, and chances of missing moves), ability to make a good decision for switching Pokemon and predicting moves, and utilizing and capitalizing your well-trained Pokemon as a team or individually which requires great move sets and great EV spreads. But sadly, luck is the main element that covers the majorities when it comes to Pokemon battle base on my 5 years of experiences in Pokemon battle.

So why are people so obsessed with Smogon? Because their stuffs work. There is no doubt about that. But why am I here and expressing my prolonged anger towards the most famous competitive oriented Pokemon battling website in North America when I am not even playing Pokemon right now? Because there are a number of unpleasant facts and periodic and one-sided transitions that created the world we are scrambled.

To jump into a conclusion, here is a compiled list of cons and pros about Smogon from my point of view.

Pros of Smogon
1. Gives detailed and attested strategies and tools for various aspects of Pokemon battling such as a team builder, damage calculator, effective move-sets, situational EV-spreads.

2. Able to share in-depth Pokemon analysis within competitive battlers in different levels while creating great rivalries between members in an intense and serious atmosphere.

3. Provides a great place to enhance battling skills and knowledge by getting advice from experienced.

4. Often can save time by using ready-to-go or designated sets without having to go through painstaking steps of what moves or EVs to implement.

5. Options to customize your own signatures, logos as an unique identity in more of an artistic way.

Cons of Smogon
1. Easy to get deluded by stereotypes and comparisons of a choice of Pokemon and sets which limits players from going dependent and hardworking which makes the Pokemon battle repetitive and predictable.

2. Periodic and erratic changes that get determined by a few higher-ups on Tiers and Ban lists that cause the entire Pokemon players in North America to quarrel and argue each other in their precious time when everyone can just enjoy the game without unnecessary hassles and distress.

3. Segregating Pokemon into too many ridiculous Tiers based on their own experiences when there are bunch of Pokemon that do not need to be treated in such a biased way. Why not just have ONE banned list and leave the rest of Pokemon instead of dividing them with a filthy border like OU.RU,NU? Felt disgusted when faced an opponent who said "Great job despite using NU Pokemon"
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#34GiftedACIIIPosted 4/26/2013 6:54:17 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#35GiftedACIIIPosted 4/26/2013 6:56:11 PM(edited)
keyos27 posted...

3. Segregating Pokemon into too many ridiculous Tiers based on their own experiences when there are bunch of Pokemon that do not need to be treated in such a biased way. Why not just have ONE banned list and leave the rest of Pokemon instead of dividing them with a filthy border like OU.RU,NU? Felt disgusted when faced an opponent who said "Great job despite using NU Pokemon"


I'll address this because it's the biggest misconception. Tiers aren't for saying what Pokemon is good or not. It's for players who want to win with less effective Pokemon in an environment without all the more effective Pokemon and for people who have gotten bored with OU or simply don't want to play the same metagame with the same Pokemon over and over. Even Nintendo does that by not allowing thier version of ubers in VGC
#36keyos27Posted 4/26/2013 8:12:06 PM
It's for players who want to win with less effective Pokemon in an environment without all the more effective Pokemon and for people who have gotten bored with OU or simply don't want to play the same metagame with the same Pokemon over and over.

This is the problem. Pokemon are not supposed to be separated into different Tiers like that. I have used numerous less effective Pokemon to confront overused Pokemon and did not feel overwhelmed enough to isolate them into RU/NU. Of course, it takes more efforts to capitalize their abilities to come shy of the power of OU Pokemon. But, isn't it more fun that way? If we keep the Tiers like this, Garchomp will never be able to scratch Froslass with its fin. You won't see a Poliwrath soaking Infernape in Pokemon X/Y. Basically, you will miss a lot of graphic elements (If you care) as well.

I ain't trying to be Ash wishing non-evolved Pokemon to defeat fully evolved Pokemon at the same level using gimmicks which I have done (My Timid Haunter succeeded "Destiny bond" to Ubers) And, Nintendo only has a list of banned Pokemon, not like NU UU RU OU etc...Don't forget, the main reason why every Pokemon looks different and has distinct abilities is to differentiate and identify its existence.

Smogon is overdoing with Tiers. Enough said.
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My team blue: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7449/teamblue2copy.jpg
#37pokemonfreak97Posted 4/26/2013 8:50:15 PM
keyos27 posted...
It's for players who want to win with less effective Pokemon in an environment without all the more effective Pokemon and for people who have gotten bored with OU or simply don't want to play the same metagame with the same Pokemon over and over.

This is the problem. Pokemon are not supposed to be separated into different Tiers like that. I have used numerous less effective Pokemon to confront overused Pokemon and did not feel overwhelmed enough to isolate them into RU/NU. Of course, it takes more efforts to capitalize their abilities to come shy of the power of OU Pokemon. But, isn't it more fun that way? If we keep the Tiers like this, Garchomp will never be able to scratch Froslass with its fin. You won't see a Poliwrath soaking Infernape in Pokemon X/Y. Basically, you will miss a lot of graphic elements (If you care) as well.

I ain't trying to be Ash wishing non-evolved Pokemon to defeat fully evolved Pokemon at the same level using gimmicks which I have done (My Timid Haunter succeeded "Destiny bond" to Ubers) And, Nintendo only has a list of banned Pokemon, not like NU UU RU OU etc...Don't forget, the main reason why every Pokemon looks different and has distinct abilities is to differentiate and identify its existence.

Smogon is overdoing with Tiers. Enough said.


"Pokémon are not supposed to be separated into different tiers like that". No, Game Freak did not intend battling to be done in tiers. But go on wi-fi (No tiers there except Game Freak's banlist) and you'll see: very few people are successfully using Articuno, or Jumpluff, or Dunsparce, or Emolga. (Yes, the last two are intended as a reference; if you don't get it, someone will) Yes, there are a few experts out there who are good enough to win with those four all on one team, probably with a Slaking and a Flareon as their other two teammates, but most people, if they tried to use those six, would fail miserably. Those Pokémon are all NU, and their analyses say things like "Although Jumpluff both deals and takes hits about as well as a cotton ball, it manages to retain its role as one of the premier annoyers of the tier due to its excellent support movepool and almost unrivaled Speed stat." or "Emolga might not see much use in the higher tiers, but in the NU tier it can really shine."

It is that last quote that embodies the use of tiers. Emolga is usable in other tiers, but in NU it is "one of the fastest Baton Pass users", "a fierce hard-hitter if played correctly", or a Pokémon whose "drawbacks are almost always outweighed by its advantages". Essentially, tiers give many more Pokémon a use to people who play purely competitively.

As for the fact that "Smogon is overdoing with tiers"; they have enough tiers to make the majority of Pokémon viable, in the sense of "not overshadowed by anything in at least one Smogon-sponsored battling environment". Essentially, if it's fully evolved (and even some that aren't; see Zweilous, Chansey, Little Cup, Magneton, Porygon2, et cetera), there is most likely a place you can use it and use it well. That's what they're aiming for.
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/691087-playstation-4
#38KeeperOfShadowsPosted 4/26/2013 8:56:22 PM
Simple answer: People hate things. Its the way we're made.
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#39elconoMPosted 4/26/2013 9:02:02 PM
I only hate the emphasis towards near flawless IV's, no hate for Smogon. Also not serious about battles so no urge to join their forum discussion. I care (?) about breeding too much.

The Smog is awesome & educational.
Koffing is Koffing except when drinking coffee. KOFFI-!!!
Moveset related discussions are better than Serebii.net's (sorry)
the fan art links o__o
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#40ColtCababaPosted 4/26/2013 9:02:53 PM
becuz smogon is teh devil
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