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So why does everyone hate smogon?

#41keyos27Posted 4/26/2013 9:15:28 PM(edited)
KeeperOfShadows posted...
Simple answer: People hate things. Its the way we're made.


You are right, there is always one thing that human hate. Massive self-centered changes in Tiers was one of the reasons why I stopped battling. I don't deserve to be consented here and I don't think Tiers will be changed in any way. Hopefully, awesome graphics and animations of this game bring a new revolution in terms of how people use Pokemon.
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#42JDM_JevPosted 4/26/2013 9:41:41 PM(edited)
I don't really get the smogon hate either.


Sure, some of the bans can be derpy, but generally they're there to curb an over-centralizing aspect to the game (ignoring of course how they continue to let rain run rampant in OU even with individual pokemon bans/ability combinations, the weather just destroys the competition).

And of course the main reason why people hate smogon is because of their inability to understand how the tiers actually work. They think pokemon like Charizard NEED to be OU because of how awesome they are, not realizing that OU is the second-highest banlist in the game.

You should be glad your favorites are RU/NU; it means you can use them in the highest number of possible metagames. So they aren't stuck sitting on the bench in purgatory like the 30-and-below OUs are (seriously there are a lot of OU pokemon too crappy to compete in OU, and they probably wouldn't be banned from UU either).
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#43PK_GamingPosted 4/26/2013 10:49:08 PM
RX02Banshee posted...
Probably because they are incredibly arrogant. They do a lot of good work for the competitive scene, but ye gods do they have swollen heads, and I suspect people pick up on it and that is where the highly negative views start being formed.

that's right

everyone who's not a part of that site should get on their knees and worship me immediately

old smogon was much, much, much worse than it is today
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#44Capitan_KidPosted 4/27/2013 12:51:08 AM
Because Smogon is full of try hard Pokelitists that twist and distort competitive pokemon battling
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#45BlazingRainPosted 4/27/2013 2:24:50 AM
LenneValkirye posted...
Smogon claims they want a "balanced" metagame, while this is far from the truth.

The way they handled Drizzle in this generation should speak for itself.
Instead of banning the root of the problem (Drizzle) they banned Manaphy, Swift Swim+Drizzle, Thundurus, Tornadus-T and they almost banned Keldeo.

It should be noted that in Gen 3 and 4 Drizzle and Drought were banned because "even a level 1 Groudon and Kyogre would break the metagame through their abilities" according to Smogon.

Of course we have things like Flinchax Jirachi free to run rampant in OU, making or breaking a match through the equivalent of a coin flip. But Moody, a poor strategy that forces you to run awful pokemon (unlike Jirachi) is the devil and needs to banned even from ubers!

Their words and their actions contraddict each other, which is the definition of hypocrisy. This is why people dislike Smogon.


Basically this.

Also, I don't like how much Pokemon discussion is centralized around it, and how it shades opinions so much that people will mention that Pokemon x is their favorite because it's good competitively (i.e. Smogon placed it in OU).

And, it's funny when people claim that tiers aren't meant to say which Pokemon are good and which aren't, when it's literally exactly what they're meant for. NU Pokemon are NU because they aren't as good as RU, OU, etc. Pokemon. So of course a lot of people aren't going to like a system which claims that their favorite Pokemon belongs in a low tier, especially when the judgements aren't objective or absolute and yet are touted as such.

And by the way, it's pretty funny to see a bunch of people attacker people for hating Smogon in a thread asking why people hate it.
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#46GiftedACIIIPosted 4/27/2013 4:37:27 PM
keyos27 posted...
It's for players who want to win with less effective Pokemon in an environment without all the more effective Pokemon and for people who have gotten bored with OU or simply don't want to play the same metagame with the same Pokemon over and over.

This is the problem. Pokemon are not supposed to be separated into different Tiers like that. I have used numerous less effective Pokemon to confront overused Pokemon and did not feel overwhelmed enough to isolate them into RU/NU. Of course, it takes more efforts to capitalize their abilities to come shy of the power of OU Pokemon. But, isn't it more fun that way? If we keep the Tiers like this, Garchomp will never be able to scratch Froslass with its fin. You won't see a Poliwrath soaking Infernape in Pokemon X/Y. Basically, you will miss a lot of graphic elements (If you care) as well.

I ain't trying to be Ash wishing non-evolved Pokemon to defeat fully evolved Pokemon at the same level using gimmicks which I have done (My Timid Haunter succeeded "Destiny bond" to Ubers) And, Nintendo only has a list of banned Pokemon, not like NU UU RU OU etc...Don't forget, the main reason why every Pokemon looks different and has distinct abilities is to differentiate and identify its existence.

Smogon is overdoing with Tiers. Enough said.


How is that a problem? Sure you can bring NU Pokemon into OU but you're purposely giving yourself a disadvantage. You must only be facing bad players if you're winning with just NU/RU Pokemon. Once you get into higher levels you can see that it's impossible to win without using stronger Pokemon. Some Pokemon are simply more effective than others. There's no denying it. Without tiers, practically nobody but beginners will use them and it'll discourage them from playing competitive as their "favorites" are all unusable against the heavy weather domination.

I also wonder if you really understand Smogon. Tiers are determined by USAGE. Those NU Pokemon were never being used anyways. NU gives them a chance to shine where people can join with their favorites.

You think putting NU tier Pokemon into OU is more fun? Yes, think that when you continually lose against good players. I think anti-smogons just have no experience in battling good players. Also I don't get that Froslass logic. Why won't it? Just bring Froslass into OU. Other people won't but you shouldn't be caring how others play. (another popular antismogon quote). I have no idea what you're rambling on about graphics.

And sure they're supposed to "differntiate" from each other but some Pokemon are just bad and made to be bad by gamefreak like Kricketune or simply less effective than other Pokemon like Heatmor and Throh. What if people want to reliably win with them?
Exactly, gimmicks are gimmicks. They aren't reliable, you'll only beat bad players with them and the main purpose is to troll the opponent.

And lol, Nintendo's list is HORRIBLE, refusing perfectly good Pokemon just because they're events and having item clause on. So stupid.
#47GiftedACIIIPosted 4/27/2013 4:46:15 PM
BlazingRain posted...
LenneValkirye posted...
Smogon claims they want a "balanced" metagame, while this is far from the truth.

The way they handled Drizzle in this generation should speak for itself.
Instead of banning the root of the problem (Drizzle) they banned Manaphy, Swift Swim+Drizzle, Thundurus, Tornadus-T and they almost banned Keldeo.

It should be noted that in Gen 3 and 4 Drizzle and Drought were banned because "even a level 1 Groudon and Kyogre would break the metagame through their abilities" according to Smogon.

Of course we have things like Flinchax Jirachi free to run rampant in OU, making or breaking a match through the equivalent of a coin flip. But Moody, a poor strategy that forces you to run awful pokemon (unlike Jirachi) is the devil and needs to banned even from ubers!

Their words and their actions contraddict each other, which is the definition of hypocrisy. This is why people dislike Smogon.


Basically this.

Also, I don't like how much Pokemon discussion is centralized around it, and how it shades opinions so much that people will mention that Pokemon x is their favorite because it's good competitively (i.e. Smogon placed it in OU).

And, it's funny when people claim that tiers aren't meant to say which Pokemon are good and which aren't, when it's literally exactly what they're meant for. NU Pokemon are NU because they aren't as good as RU, OU, etc. Pokemon. So of course a lot of people aren't going to like a system which claims that their favorite Pokemon belongs in a low tier, especially when the judgements aren't objective or absolute and yet are touted as such.

And by the way, it's pretty funny to see a bunch of people attacker people for hating Smogon in a thread asking why people hate it.


People are ignoring Lenne because he's been an anti-smogon troll for ages because of something personal with him and some mods. Besides that isn't the main reason people dislike Smogon. Most anti-smogons are ignorant "casuals" who have no idea about flinchhax and the abuse of weather. If Smogon banned them the anti-smogons would be in even more of an outrage.

Now for your first point, I have not seen this much, that is your personal anecdote and not relevant in a debate (but I guess if it's your opininon). I've seen much more smogon hate than praising smogon and THEY'RE the hypocrites. (as in hating Smogon for being too "nerdy" and too elitist andd then they go and say that they have no life and that they hate hackers)

Yes NU Pokemon are less effective than RUs, UUs, OUs etc. but without tiers, they wouldn't be used at all and people will just stop playing competitive altogether whining that it's the same thing over and over again. Also the reason NU Pokemon are NU isn't because Smogon decided them... but because their USAGE showed that nobody was using them.

See, you don't even understand Smogon which is why most anti-smogonites are ignorant. They're NU because they're ineffective and people weren't using them. It's not Smogon's fault some people's favorites are bad. Their judgements are the more fair and balanced than any other community. Their community actually battle every day, with many battles a day. They're far more experienced than any other community.
#48BlazingRainPosted 4/27/2013 4:57:36 PM
GiftedACIII posted...
BlazingRain posted...
LenneValkirye posted...
Smogon claims they want a "balanced" metagame, while this is far from the truth.

The way they handled Drizzle in this generation should speak for itself.
Instead of banning the root of the problem (Drizzle) they banned Manaphy, Swift Swim+Drizzle, Thundurus, Tornadus-T and they almost banned Keldeo.

It should be noted that in Gen 3 and 4 Drizzle and Drought were banned because "even a level 1 Groudon and Kyogre would break the metagame through their abilities" according to Smogon.

Of course we have things like Flinchax Jirachi free to run rampant in OU, making or breaking a match through the equivalent of a coin flip. But Moody, a poor strategy that forces you to run awful pokemon (unlike Jirachi) is the devil and needs to banned even from ubers!

Their words and their actions contraddict each other, which is the definition of hypocrisy. This is why people dislike Smogon.


Basically this.

Also, I don't like how much Pokemon discussion is centralized around it, and how it shades opinions so much that people will mention that Pokemon x is their favorite because it's good competitively (i.e. Smogon placed it in OU).

And, it's funny when people claim that tiers aren't meant to say which Pokemon are good and which aren't, when it's literally exactly what they're meant for. NU Pokemon are NU because they aren't as good as RU, OU, etc. Pokemon. So of course a lot of people aren't going to like a system which claims that their favorite Pokemon belongs in a low tier, especially when the judgements aren't objective or absolute and yet are touted as such.

And by the way, it's pretty funny to see a bunch of people attacker people for hating Smogon in a thread asking why people hate it.


People are ignoring Lenne because he's been an anti-smogon troll for ages because of something personal with him and some mods. Besides that isn't the main reason people dislike Smogon. Most anti-smogons are ignorant "casuals" who have no idea about flinchhax and the abuse of weather. If Smogon banned them the anti-smogons would be in even more of an outrage.

Now for your first point, I have not seen this much, that is your personal anecdote and not relevant in a debate (but I guess if it's your opininon). I've seen much more smogon hate than praising smogon and THEY'RE the hypocrites. (as in hating Smogon for being too "nerdy" and too elitist andd then they go and say that they have no life and that they hate hackers)

Yes NU Pokemon are less effective than RUs, UUs, OUs etc. but without tiers, they wouldn't be used at all and people will just stop playing competitive altogether whining that it's the same thing over and over again. Also the reason NU Pokemon are NU isn't because Smogon decided them... but because their USAGE showed that nobody was using them.

See, you don't even understand Smogon which is why most anti-smogonites are ignorant. They're NU because they're ineffective and people weren't using them. It's not Smogon's fault some people's favorites are bad. Their judgements are the more fair and balanced than any other community. Their community actually battle every day, with many battles a day. They're far more experienced than any other community.


Yep you're definitely a fanboy.

Regardless the whole "we place Pokemon according to their usage" thing is obviously a lie or an exaggeration, or else the joke that Charizard is constantly being used and destroyed in Ubers wouldn't be exist.
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#49GiftedACIIIPosted 4/27/2013 5:01:04 PM
BlazingRain posted...


Yep you're definitely a fanboy.

Regardless the whole "we place Pokemon according to their usage" thing is obviously a lie or an exaggeration, or else the joke that Charizard is constantly being used and destroyed in Ubers wouldn't be exist.


Weighted stats. Though it's obvious you're just another ignorant whiner who is just to selfabsorbed in his own opinions.

Yep, you're definitely a joke poster or a scrub.
#50BlazingRainPosted 4/27/2013 5:18:07 PM
Is anyone else laughing at this guy so viciously defending Smogon that he can't see himself doing everything he's trying to criticize others for?

And what weighted stats? Charizard is used a lot everywhere. Stop acting like it isn't overused and just accept that the tiers are biased.
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